DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 38455--------------------------------------------------
Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: anonymous
Date: September 26, 2024, 10:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
need your help once again. I searched on this forum about
similar cases and found this topic
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-not-printed-correctlyclearly/msg15454/#msg15454<br
/>but the original poster never got back to responding so I am
starting this thread.
The driver parked in a pay and display in Redbridge and
registered for an hours parking. Unfortunately the driver got
back to the car a bit late and found the dreaded pcn attached to
the windscreen, 17 minutes after the paid parking had lapsed.
Was a bit shocked and delighted to see that it was supposedly
only going to cost £11, but on closer inspection it seems that
the printer was misaligned and everything had shifted down.
The driver is wondering if there is any leg to stand on?
Paid Parking:
HTML https://ibb.co/sVDCGqt
PCN Front:
HTML https://ibb.co/ydctsfD
PCN Back:
HTML https://ibb.co/hVCr1MN
GSV: Link
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5500404,0.0747229,3a,24.6y,208.85h,81.28t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shtI3m12xJGZk1cBGUwNJKg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D8.718596704556205%26panoid%3DhtI3m12xJGZk1cBGUwNJKg%26yaw%3D208.849968393526!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
#Post#: 38461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 26, 2024, 10:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd say this isn't compliant in multiple places but others will
no doubt comment.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/S2rt0Ri.png
#Post#: 38464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 26, 2024, 11:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Cm3g01q/Screenshot-20240926-162758.jpg
HTML https://imgbb.com/
HTML https://i.ibb.co/9WGB3v0/Screenshot-20240926-162800.jpg
HTML https://imgbb.com/
I am inclined (pace Stamforman) to feel that an Adjudicator may
say that it is not sufficiently distorted for the man on the
Clapham omnibus not to be able to make sense of the misprint.
Therte may well be mistakes in the 'small print'on the back, but
that is above my pay-grade!
#Post#: 38475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 26, 2024, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The PCN distortion is rather thin gruel for an appeal to London
Tribunals, and you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty as well.
It is virtually inevitable any representations submitted to the
council will be refused, but submit them anyway, as they may
cock-up their reply, which then gives you a stronger appeal
argument.
#Post#: 38486--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: anonymous
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> The PCN distortion is rather thin gruel for an appeal to
London Tribunals, and you'd have to risk the full PCN penalty as
well. It is virtually inevitable any representations submitted
to the council will be refused, but submit them anyway, as they
may ****-up their reply, which then gives you a stronger appeal
argument.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can I play on the argument that the PCN states £11 as a fine but
the online portal shows £40?
#Post#: 38487--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hang on. When you go to challenge, first screenshot the page and
report back with what grounds are provided please.
#Post#: 38488--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: anonymous
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Hang on. When you go to challenge, first screenshot the page
and report back with what grounds are provided please.
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://ibb.co/dDnwK4d
Edit: Apologies, inserting the image is broken for me it seems.
Ive changed the link to remove the [img]
#Post#: 38492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Wait to see what others say, but I'd be tempted to post them a
cheque for £11 "in full and final settlement". It'll get
rejected, but I think you'd be in a pretty strong position at
adjudication given that the actual amount is the least readable
part of the PCN.
#Post#: 38494--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: anonymous link ---
>
> [quote author=Hippocrates link=topic=3271.msg38487#msg38487
date=1727372356]
> Hang on. When you go to challenge, first screenshot the page
and report back with what grounds are provided please.
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://ibb.co/dDnwK4d
Edit: Apologies, inserting the image is broken for me it seems.
Ive changed the link to remove the [img]
[/quote]
Clearly not the whole grounds:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/5/made
#Post#: 38495--------------------------------------------------
Re: Misaligned PCN - Borough of Redbridge
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Grant Urismo link ---
>
> Wait to see what others say, but I'd be tempted to post them a
cheque for £11 "in full and final settlement". It'll get
rejected, but I think you'd be in a pretty strong position at
adjudication given that the actual amount is the least readable
part of the PCN.
>
--- End Quote ---
I half agree. After all, it is purportedly the first legal
document in the chain. Give them £5.50.
mrmustard sent me this yesterday:
Case Details
Case
reference
2240242447
Appellant Yocheved Goldmeier
Authority London Borough of Barnet
VRM LN12CGG
PCN Details
PCN AG44813617
Contravention
date
06 Feb 2024
Contravention
time
09:17:00
Contravention
location
Penshurst Gardens
Penalty
amount
GBP 80.00
Contravention Parked without payment of the parking charge
Referral date
Decision Date 02 Aug 2024
Adjudicator Martin Hoare
Appeal
decision
Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons The Appellant accurately submitted ‘The EA on
page 2 paragraph 5 of their NoR state that;” As a
goodwill gesture, we are willing to reoffer you the
opportunity to pay at a discount price of £65, if paid
within 14 days from the date of this letter”. However
further down the same page of the same NoR
namely on page 2 paragraph 9, the EA state the
discount amount to be £40, ie; “Pay within 14 days
of the date of service of this letter at the amount of
£40 and the case will be closed”.’
The Council apologised ‘ for the typographical error
made by the officer in the NOR. The PCN was
issued at the statutory rate of £80, reduced to £40 if
paid within 14 days of the date of the PCN. The
Council then re-offered the discounted rate when
NOR was issued for a further 14 days of the date of
the NOR. It should be noted that this was done as a
gesture of goodwill. The Council was not required
under the regulations to re-offer a discount. The
PCN was set at £40 during the discount period and
this would have appeared as the charge payable for
the appellant had they chosen to pay the PCN.’
However the statutory scheme requires practical
certainty about the level of penalty to be paid and
when a penalty is to be paid. In this instance the
typographical mistake caused a real scope for
material confusion on an important aspect of the
enforcement process.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 5
DIR Next Page