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#Post#: 38473--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 26, 2024, 11:52 am
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The absence of a single yellow line is in your favour, as by its
absence you were not prompted to go and look at the sign for the
restriction.
#Post#: 38479--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: steamingbanana
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:05 pm
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Thank you. But I am concerned that the previous very similar
case failed at tribunal with the adjudicator seemingly happen
that the markets were ok.
#Post#: 38489--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: sx4
Date: September 26, 2024, 12:44 pm
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Surely that signage doesn’t state it’s a taxi rank but a no
waiting restriction after 6pm to 8am so an 01 not a 45
contravention would be appropriate and only with an accompanying
yellow line.
If the main taxi rank is close by this space could be used as a
feeder to main rank but once again not marked correctly as a
taxi rank or even without yellow line an 01 contravention could
not be enforced unless a restricted parking zone.
#Post#: 38496--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 26, 2024, 1:01 pm
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Well there's quite a few issues here.
Firstly [member=2834]steamingbanana[/member] the thread you
referenced was unsuccesful in no small part because
[member=777]spinningfish[/member] represented himself, I've won
a case in very similar circumstances in Darren Armitage v
Lancashire County Council (LQ00155-2208, 2 September 2022)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BEV_Moen0XVkiCIPq_N8yIJmfKAZ-625/view.
However it seems to me that the situation has, contrary to your
opening post, materially changed:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Q0CJBn1.jpeg
There appears to be a single yellow line next to your car, which
makes this case different to spinningfish's one.
The more promising aspect is whether this is a taxi rank at all,
which is an angle well worth exploring. A taxi rank is not
created by means of a Traffic Regulation Order made under
section 1 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/1,
instead
a taxi rank is created under section 63 of the Local Government
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/57/section/63.
There is every chance that the council has simply made a traffic
order under the 1984 Act rather than designating a hackney stand
under the 1976 Act (it is unlikely the council officers will
have read the 1976 Act), and if that's the case then as
[member=2858]sx4[/member] points out the contravention should be
01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, if
that is right then the contravention alleged of "Parked on a
taxi rank" did not occur because there is no taxi rank.
All that being said it would be helpful to have some factual
background: why did you park there, how long was your car there,
and why did you think it would be OK to park there?
#Post#: 38535--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: mickR
Date: September 27, 2024, 2:16 am
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looks like the road markings have changed since latest GSV and
what appears to be a SYL added but signage is the same.
in 2029 signs were different and taxi bay was on other side of
road.
#Post#: 38552--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 27, 2024, 4:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This thread shows the importance of real photos of the alleged
contravention. GSV of 2023 shows no yellow line, but the CEO's
photo does. So in the months between the GSV camera van coming
along in May 2023, and the date of the contravention, the
council have painted a yellow line to support the yellow "No
Waiting" sign.
#Post#: 38559--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 27, 2024, 5:46 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> There is every chance that the council has simply made a
traffic order under the 1984 Act rather than designating a
hackney stand under the 1976 Act (it is unlikely the council
officers will have read the 1976 Act), and if that's the case
then as [member=2858]sx4[/member] points out the contravention
should be 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed
hours, if that is right then the contravention alleged of
"Parked on a taxi rank" did not occur because there is no taxi
rank.
>
--- End Quote ---
I was going to find the pics but you beat me to it and then look
for the order and this looks promising as the council has indeed
used the 1984 act to create what it wrongly calls a 'taxi
clearway' in this RPZ.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/kABkUxC.png
Full order:
HTML https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/East%20Hertfordshire/Permanent-Fore-Street-Restricted-Zone-and-prohibition-of-motor-vehicles-TRO-2023.pdf
Map:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/lr6lqpt.png
#Post#: 38751--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: steamingbanana
Date: September 28, 2024, 3:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello everybody. Firstly, I want to thank the experts on here
for all the info included in the last 8 posts or so.
I didn't know I could search for the CEO pictures from my PCN
details.
In terms of "real photos" - I can only apologise I didn't - and
that I did indeed "refer" to the GSV pics as well as the pics
from the "similar case" from Oct 2023. I had not had the time to
revisit the scene since the date of the PCN (Fri 20th).
So to answer other questions:
Why did I park there?
As I stated in my rather rambling opening post - I have lived
locally for many years - albeit I haven't visited the town
centre much in the last 5 years or so - I knew that during Covid
major temporary changes were made with regard to social
distancing for pedewstrians - so all park zones became extended
pavements - but I assumed that post-Covid things had returned to
"normal" (pre Covid) and the space I parked in always used to be
limited stay (30 mins) during the day and then "unlimited during
the evening". In addition, I have become accustomed to the
"normal" markings that the local Council have for loading
bays/disabled bays (both with Painted signs on road alongside
the markings) - and taxi ranks being yellow painted lines and
yellow painted words on the road) - I parked for around 20
minutes - and when I returned - I was "dumbfounded" as to why I
had even got a PCN. I didn't have the foresight there and then
to take any photos - especially as a doorman in the pub opposite
warned me if I stayed any longer the CEOs would come around
again and ticket me again (I had removed the PCN from my
windscreen to read it). As it happens - they did reappear within
seconds of that warning. I did "ask" where the taxi rank was and
they walked off and ignored me.
So - I'm not sure how relevant the following is given the expert
posts posted above - but here goes. I did revisit the scene
again last night - exactly a week after my PCN - I had to park
quite a way away - and as I approached on foot I saw a CEO
issuing a ticket - by the time I arrived they had gone - but
there were six cars with PCNs - five of them parked in "my" bay
- and one on the other side of the road.
In addition - there were temporary signs attached to the posts
on the pavement - small signs - not much bigger than A4 size -
warning of gulley cleaning and no parking regardless of what the
signs allowed!!
I took photos of all the PCNs issue - as well as some of the
signs - I also confirmed that yes there is now a single yellow
line marked in the bay - and going back to the answer to "why I
parked there" - again I was ignorant of the road markings -
I meant to take photos of how the council do mark Loading Bays
and taxi ranks - but I forgot to walk around that way - I'll try
to link to GSV (hopefully they have not changed!) - but it's
probably irrelevant anyway - because this was a "shared bay" -
so in theory the rules do allow the council to use simple white
markings and no writing on the road - despite the fact that the
% of time that it is "free parking" is probably less than 50% of
the week - hey ho.
If any of these photos are irrelevant and clogging up the forum
- I'm happy if an admin deletes them - if that is possible.
My only point is that it seems obvious that the bay is
"misleading" if it generates so many PCNs - and regardless of
the outcome of my case, I am intending sending an FOI to EHC
requesting info as to how many PCNs have been issued since they
changed the use of the bay. Be interesting reading.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/sGNYj1e.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/GXD2rKB.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/zB4LorQ.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Ursyz6z.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/oWHuBWr.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/mnMYhox.jpg
#Post#: 38752--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: steamingbanana
Date: September 28, 2024, 4:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
these are the taxi ranks and loading bay just around the corner
from my "bay" - for reference as to how I expect a bay to be
marked - so the "inconsistent" marking in my bay is what led me
to not fully understand it may have had parking restrictions.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/XbrQkef2nMzyNxKX7
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/nFVq8mnQUsEhfUAT6
#Post#: 38753--------------------------------------------------
Re: East Herts Council, code 45 Parked on a taxi rank, Fore
Street, Hertford
DIR By: steamingbanana
Date: September 28, 2024, 4:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I had a read of the Parking Order kindly posted - assuming this
is the correct order - and it does seem to be - it does seem
strange that the wording of the order doesn't match the
restrictions shown on the sign.
"Taxi clearways in Fore Street – effective 6:00pm to 8:00am
Monday to Saturday inclusive."
Whereas the sign only shows "no waiting except taxis on Fri and
Sat nights"
a more detailed description is at sec 7.(2) on page 11 -
Taxi Clearways as identified and shown on the Restricted Parking
Zone plan and detailed
in the key to that plan as taxi clearways may be used for the
stopping and waiting of taxis
during the hours of 6:00pm to 8:00am Monday to Saturday
inclusive for the purpose of
plying for hire and dropping off or picking up of passengers.
All in all - if EHC have indeed used the wrong act for a "Taxi
clearway" or "taxi rank" - would someone offer some guidance as
to the wording of my appeal of the PCN please?
Many thanks
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