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#Post#: 37748--------------------------------------------------
Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: markie76
Date: September 21, 2024, 4:26 pm
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Hello,
Returning from a long weekend in Essex I found myself going over
the Queen Elizabeth II bridge for the first time.
I saw the notice boards about paying the toll by midnight the
day after and though that's good as I will get back late and
maybe not even before midnight.
Of course next day I completely forgot to pay!!!
I now have a Dart Charge PCN and wondered if anyone could have a
look at it whether there are any points to try and save myself
£35 (which I could use better elsewhere :( )
Links to PCN scans; (click the 2nd thumbnail)
PAGE 1;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/Mnr3cCV/MY-DC-pg1of2.jpg
HTML http://[url=
HTML https://ibb.co/Mnr3cCV]https://i.ibb.co/Mnr3cCV/MY-DC-pg1of2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/Mnr3cCV[/url]
PAGE 2;
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2N0KFjf/MY-DC-pg2of2.jpg
HTML http://[url=
HTML https://ibb.co/2N0KFjf]https://i.ibb.co/2N0KFjf/MY-DC-pg2of2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/2N0KFjf[/url]
Really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Mark
#Post#: 37749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 21, 2024, 4:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There's something wrong with your attachment, because when I
click on one of them it just gives a blank screen with the words
"about:blank#blocked" in the tab title.
DART are normally forgiving of first time offenders, so it you
ring them up, might cancel the PCN for you provided you pay the
actual toll. There used to be a sentence at the bottom of the
PCN somewhere that said this.
#Post#: 37750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: markie76
Date: September 21, 2024, 5:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> There's something wrong with your attachment, because when I
click on one of them it just gives a blank screen with the words
"about:blank#blocked" in the tab title. Is there a better upload
site to use?
>
> DART are normally forgiving of first time offenders, so it you
ring them up, might cancel the PCN for you provided you pay the
actual toll. There used to be a sentence at the bottom of the
PCN somewhere that said this.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for your reply.
The website says 'upload folder is full' so I had to upload to
imgbb - the second thumbnail works for me?
I heard that they were doing that and I did email them but no
reply yet.
Shortly after I bought the car my registration was cloned and I
started getting various fines which included 2 Dart Charge
PCN's. As soon as I got a crime reference and replied to
Councils, Baliffs & Dart Charge, they were all cancelled. Police
also confirmed they stopped the cloned vehicle and arrested the
driver.
So while this is MY first Dart Charge PCN, the car has had 2
cancelled PCN's before due to the cloning.
Do you think that's why they didn't offer it to me?
Thanks,
Mark
#Post#: 37753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 21, 2024, 6:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No I don't think so. Delays by most enforcing authorities are
normal when representations are submitted. You could always call
them too.
If you want to read the actual regulations, here they are: -
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/contents/made
#Post#: 37757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 22, 2024, 3:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I heard that they were doing that [cancelling for first-time
contraventions] and I did email them but no reply yet.
Pl post. If you've made representations then all you can do is
wait for their response.
#Post#: 37774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: markie76
Date: September 22, 2024, 5:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> No I don't think so. Delays by most enforcing authorities are
normal when representations are submitted. You could always call
them too.
>
> If you want to read the actual regulations, here they are: -
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/contents/made
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> I heard that they were doing that [cancelling for first-time
contraventions] and I did email them but no reply yet.
>
> Pl post. If you've made representations then all you can do is
wait for their response.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have not yet made an appeal/representation.
All I have done is emailed Dart Charge customer services to ask
about the 'First Contravention Offer' and they replied telling
me to email the PCN team - which I did with just the question,
no mention of the PCN reference.
But not received a reply in over a week.
Should I make an appeal, explaining about my registraion being
cloned in 2017 and getting Dart Charge PCN's then, which were
not actually me or my vehicle (but victim of a crime)?
Thanks,
Mark
#Post#: 37791--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 22, 2024, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If time for a response to your email is running out, you should
submit reps against the PCN as if you don't you'll lose all hope
of getting it overturned. You need to state as a first time user
of the crossing, you simply forgot to pay the bridge toll. You
also understand that it is customary of DART to cancel a first
time PCN provided the toll is paid. Point out that you had
previously suffered cloning of your number plate, so there were
previous PCNs issued against your vehicle, but these were
cancelled following submission of the police crime details.
#Post#: 37910--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: markie76
Date: September 23, 2024, 3:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> If time for a response to your email is running out, you
should submit reps against the PCN as if you don't you'll lose
all hope of getting it overturned. You need to state as a first
time user of the crossing, you simply forgot to pay the bridge
toll. You also understand that it is customary of DART to cancel
a first time PCN provided the toll is paid. Point out that you
had previously suffered cloning of your number plate, so there
were previous PCNs issued against your vehicle, but these were
cancelled following submission of the police crime details.
>
--- End Quote ---
So I phoned them and they;
1. Confirmed they do still offer the 'First Contravention
Warning' letter and request for payment of just the toll.
2. It doesn't apply to me as the vehicle registration is showing
as having previous PCN's.
Obvious flaw here, if a vehicle which has previously been issued
PCN's (or in my case cloned & issued PCN's) gets sold to a new
owner who has never used the Dartford crossing before - they
won't get the 'First Contravention Warning' on their first Dart
Charge slip up. Well not automatically issued by their system.
So I was told to appeal and explain my situation.
Any advice/template on how to appeal this or should I ramble off
my history with this vehicle in full and submit the Police
letters & previous Dart Charge correspondence?
Thanks,
Mark
#Post#: 37916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 23, 2024, 4:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We don't offer templates as representations are better if they
are written by the PCN recipient. However that doesn't stop you
asking us to check your draft.
So prepare reps based on what you've told us here, and post them
for a review. You need to get across the point that previous
PCNs were due to cloned number plates.
#Post#: 37973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dart Charge PCN
DIR By: markie76
Date: September 23, 2024, 2:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> We don't offer templates as representations are better if they
are written by the PCN recipient. However that doesn't stop you
asking us to check your draft.
>
> So prepare reps based on what you've told us here, and post
them for a review. You need to get across the point that
previous PCNs were due to cloned number plates.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ok, I think I have made it clear I was the victim of number
plate cloning by a disqualified driver - sorry it's long even
after trying to shorten it - feedback most welcome. I need to
email it as I have 2 days of my 14 day period left - I just hope
their online portal accepts scans... :-[
I got 4 Dart Charge PCN's in Dec 2017 against my registration
due to number plate cloning - all cancelled in FEB18.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - -
Dear Sir/Madam,
Representation PCN: IOxxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: XX99 XXX
First Contravention with previously cloned vehicle registration.
On the evening of the 3 rd September 2024 I made my very first
Dartford bridge crossing in the above
vehicle which I have owned since December 2017. I was relieved
to see the signs that I had until the
day after the crossing to pay the toll charge as I was expecting
to get back very late, possibly in the
early hours. The next day I completely forgot to pay the Dart
Charge.
I spoke with your PCN helpline as I have been told for a first
contravention you send a warning letter
with an opportunity to pay the toll charge. Your helpline
confirmed this is still the case and checked my
PCN reference but stated this does not apply to me as the
vehicle registration is showing as having
past PCN's issued.
I explained that after I purchased the car it was unused due to
a medical emergency and being
hospitalised. When my post was brought to me in hospital I found
Police letters for speeding and fuel
theft and also Dart Charge PCN’s. This was not due to my actions
as I had not even used the car yet.
I reported the car as stolen to The Metropolitan Police. Soon
the investigating officer contacted me to
confirm that my car is still where I left it and that Essex
Police had arrested a disqualified driver
driving a vehicle cloned with my vehicle registration.
Timeline of events;
* 27NOV17 – Car purchased with BOS signed by seller. Car left in
residential car park on SORN.
* 09DEC17 – Hospitalised.
* 18DEC17 – Vehicle declared as SORN.
* 25DEC17 – Had my post brought to me in hospital to find Dart
Charge PCN’s & Police letter;
Dart Charge letters; PCN 1: dated 14DEC17 & Warning letter, and
PCN 2: dated 14DEC17.
Essex Police S172 - speeding on A127 Southend Arterial Road for
a date & time I was in
company of other people who can vouch for me.
Reported to Metropolitan Police, issued crime ref: CHS
xxxxx25/12/2017.
* 27DEC17 – Email from Islington Police Officer 1xxxCN that they
will be investigating the theft
of my car. (Islington Police crime ref: xxxxxxx/17)
* 28DEC17 – I am released from hospital.
* 31DEC17 – Email from Islington Police Officer 1xxxCN
confirming;
My car is still in the car park and has not been stolen.
Essex Police have arrested a disqualified driver in a xxxxxxxxxx
with my number plate and
having checked the chassis the male driver was using cloned
plates. I should inform Dart
Charge & other agencies that there was a vehicle being driven
using my license plate.
* JAN18 – Dart Charge Letters; PCN 3: dated 28DEC17 and PCN 4:
dated 28DEC17.
* 06JAN18 – Essex Police letter from A/Roads Policing Sergent
XXX investigating the speeding
offence requesting pictures of my car.
* 23JAN18 – Telephone enquiry to DVLA about getting new
registration, suggested to write in with details for file.
* FEB18 – Dart Charge letter dated: 05FEB18 confirming
acceptance of representation and 4
PCN’s have been cancelled.
* 22FEB18 – Representation to Sounthend Council for 2 PCN's.
Please would you reconsider this PCN as it is genuinely the
first Dartford crossing made by me and
my vehicle.
The previous 4 PCN’s you have on your system for the
registration: XX99 XXX are due to the
criminal actions of a disqualified driver using cloned number
plates of my vehicle registration.
My Dart Charge PCN is my and my vehicles genuine ‘First
Contravention’ and due to completely
forgetting to pay the £2.50 charge the day after my crossing.
Attached:
1. Essex Police closing case on offences between 8th December
2017 & 23rd December 2017 as believed to be due to cloned
registration.
2. Islington Police Officer 1xxxCN email confirming disqualified
driver was arrested using
cloned plates of my vehicle registration.
3. Dart Charge letter confirming representation accepted for the
stated circumstances (cloned
number plate).
4. SORN confirmation email dated 18DEC17.
Kind regards,
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