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#Post#: 2527--------------------------------------------------
PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: Sandrei
Date: August 3, 2023, 11:11 am
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Got a ticket in Bromley because I wasn't parked in the bay
because the way the car in front of mine was parked, I had to
leave it out of bay. Done the representation, explaining that
the other car was parked wrong, forcing me to be out of bay. I
wasn't expecting for them to say that is my responability to
make sure the car is in the bay, so I should have left the
spaces empty? Can I do something about it? Many thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 2528--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: Sandrei
Date: August 3, 2023, 11:13 am
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First time posting here. I don't think I have the original PCN.
If you need more info let me know please.
Thanks
#Post#: 2529--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: August 3, 2023, 11:27 am
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Here?
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4010687,0.0182472,3a,66.6y,222.56h,73.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp7Pr5nI_n-hEHmQhIGfYKA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Nothing on the sign showing requirement to park within bay
markings.
I wonder what the TMO says?
#Post#: 2539--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 3, 2023, 4:23 pm
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The Bromley Notice to Owner is flawed, so it's relatively safe
to carry on.
They will reoffer the discount at the next stage in any event,
as long as the NTO is challenged within 14 days.
Just post the NTO on here when you get it, see the guidance here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>for instructions on how to post images if you run out of
space.
#Post#: 2542--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 3, 2023, 4:46 pm
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--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> I wonder what the TMO says?
>
--- End Quote ---
The Bromley (Controlled Parking) (On Street Places) Order 2004
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1SyxezItxau_CctKMzoOj13b62a_Q9tUO&export=inline
The Bromley (Controlled Parking) (On Street Places) Order 2004 -
Schedule 1
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1FLz9kvegurlShCSc2uW3JSbgE19wHj6b&export=inline<br
/>(see entries 29 and 30 on page 3).
The Bromley (Controlled Parking) (On Street Places) Order 2004 -
Schedule 3
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=15bAhI-wYy7TroV7g5UtjCE48uKPevxzs&export=inline
#Post#: 2555--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: August 4, 2023, 4:02 am
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Ta
So the schedule specifies no special manner of standing...ie in
marked spaces.
While S14 of the TMO says...
"that every part of the vehicle is within the limits of a
parking space which shall
be an appropriate parking place in relation to the parking
device in which has
been or should have been inserted any coin for the purpose of
payment of the
initial charge. "
Which was common and made sense when parking meters were in play
but makes no sense when pay and display machines and pay by
phone came in. Does everyone have to park by their phone?
My only concern is whether the numbers in each bay relate to PBP
session, ie you should pay for bay 14..... not that I've ever
come across that?
#Post#: 2557--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: guest179
Date: August 4, 2023, 4:48 am
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IMO, 2(1), 10(f) and 14 have to be read together.
2(1) defines 'parking place' and differentiates this from and
similarly defines 'parking space'; 10(f) states that a PCN may
be issued if a vehicle is not parked in a space contrary to 14
(b).
#Post#: 2561--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: August 4, 2023, 5:34 am
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--- Quote from: Ugly duckling link ---
>
> IMO, 2(1), 10(f) and 14 have to be read together.
>
> 2(1) defines 'parking place' and differentiates this from and
similarly defines 'parking space'; 10(f) states that a PCN may
be issued if a vehicle is not parked in a space contrary to 14
(b).
>
--- End Quote ---
I take your point but 10(f) is only relevant to 14 and that
clause only has 14(b) that could be relevant. (I quoted above)
But that relates to a space in relation to a payment machine, ie
a parking meter.
Without a payment machine to put coins into in every bay, the
clause makes little sense.
It's certainly difficult to enforce against when the basic
premise of a machine does not exist.
Would be less certain if there was any mention of marked spaces
but I have found none.
There is none on post signage either.
Which leaves it inherent to park within a space but IMO no legal
basis to enforce.
#Post#: 2579--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: Sandrei
Date: August 4, 2023, 9:30 am
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Thanks all for responding. So should I pay it or can I make a
new PCN chalenge on different grounds?
TIA
#Post#: 2580--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN in Bromley, Location 6022
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: August 4, 2023, 9:43 am
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Don't pay when you have the NTO you will be helped with a
representation. Basically the council have no right to try to
enforce a penalty for how you parked
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