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#Post#: 37473--------------------------------------------------
Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: Just234
Date: September 19, 2024, 3:23 am
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I have just realised I’ve got a failure to notify of driver for
a speeding offence which I did not know about after checking my
drivers license online. 6 points and a fine.
So I’m looking for advice on how to appeal.
I’ve read all about the statutory declaration but the process
seems to have changed since that was all written as it’s all
done online on a form.
I was given a number to call who sent me a link for an online
form to complete which I had various options to select to
appeal.
It asks on the form would I like to request to reopen my case or
make a statutory declaration that I did not know about the case.
So I’ve chosen the latter.
Then it asks do I plead
a,guilty or
b,not guilty or
c, both guilty/not guilty to more than one charge.
(I did not know about any of the charges against me as we don’t
receive some of the mail delivered at our house through a
combination of no mailbox in the property with communal hallway
where mail is delivered to/ transient flat residents/non
residents residing here/ fallout with neighbours and police
involvement all of which I can evidence of chasing up mail, and
emails requesting to companies for email correspondence only.
So I would plead not guilty to the charge of failure to notify
on the basis I did not receive the notice sent.
The speeding charge I was driving my son to hospital - can I
plead not guilty? Or do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating
circumstances?
The form then asks for information regarding your plea- do I
have to fill in every detail here as to why I feel I’m not
guilty/guilty?
It later on asks for any further information and a place to
upload any documentarian. Do I have to upload all evidence here
to support my claim? Ie. Show emails regarding lost mail etc?
Hospital paperwork?
There was a driving ban issued on the same day the points were
added to my license but it’s not mentioned in the paperwork
supplied in the email but is shown on my license online -
driving ban due to totting up of points
How do I address this? Do I just add this in to ‘ further
information’?
Once my form is completed it says they will then decide whether
to reopen the case - will the ban be stayed until a court
hearing? Do I need to request the court to lift the driving ban?
They said it takes 6 months currently to get a court hearing,
but can be treated as urgent because of the ban but no
timescales were given for urgent cases.
I can’t work without my license so it’s vital to me.
Any help would be much appreciated.
And given the lost mail can I request further mail to be sent to
a different address? Or email?
#Post#: 37490--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: September 19, 2024, 6:18 am
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--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
>
> So I’m looking for advice on how to appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
You don't, as you then correctly say you submit a statutory
declaration which is NOT an appeal.
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
>
> So I would plead not guilty to the charge of failure to notify
on the basis I did not receive the notice sent.
>
--- End Quote ---
What matters is not whether you didn't receive it but whether it
was served or not, as a number of items of post (as least 3,
more likely 4) were not received by you it suggests the Police
did not have the correct address for you (despite what you say,
as 4 items going missing is 'unlikely' I would suggest), perhaps
you moved and forgot to update the V5c registration document
address with the DVLA?
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
>
> The speeding charge I was driving my son to hospital - can I
plead not guilty? Or do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating
circumstances?
>
--- End Quote ---
Of course you can (and should currently) plead not guilty,
whether you then continue that is a different matter, if the
S172 notice was properly served (and you have to prove it
wasn't) you will currently be found guilty of the more onerous
S172 offence, as such offering to plead guilty to the speeding
(when you can't then offer a defence) in exchange for the S172
being dropped seems the pragmatic option.
Driving your son to hospital is, of itself' meaningless unless
you are suggesting it was some form of an emergency, obviously
to a routine appointment is no different top driving to a book
shop.
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
>
> There was a driving ban issued on the same day the points were
added to my license but it’s not mentioned in the paperwork
supplied in the email but is shown on my license online -
driving ban due to totting up of points
>
--- End Quote ---
Very unfortunate, this is where applying online is going to
probably be bad, if you contact the court in person and speak to
someone you may get your hearing expedited, whatever you put in
an online application will probably not be looked at until it
reaches the front of the queue - in some time from now.
#Post#: 37514--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 19, 2024, 7:38 am
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--- Quote from: The Rookie link ---
>
> [quote author=Just234 link=topic=3196.msg37473#msg37473
date=1726734201]
> So I’m looking for advice on how to appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
You don't, as you then correctly say you submit a statutory
declaration which is NOT an appeal.[/quote]
Pedantic much?
Technically, the OP could appeal to the Crown Court, but a stat
dec is a far better solution.
Currently, the OP has been convicted of an offence in his
absence and received a totting ban. He is seeking to challenge
this conviction. If he was asking whether to do a stat dec,
appeal to the crown court or appeal by way of case stated, stat
dec, not appeal would be an appropriate response, but in the
context of his post, the distinction is pedantry.
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
> [quote author=Just234 link=topic=3196.msg37473#msg37473
date=1726734201]
> So I would plead not guilty to the charge of failure to notify
on the basis I did not receive the notice sent.
>
--- End Quote ---
What matters is not whether you didn't receive it but whether it
was served or not, as a number of items of post (as least 3,
more likely 4) were not received by you it suggests the Police
did not have the correct address for you (despite what you say,
as 4 items going missing is 'unlikely' I would suggest), perhaps
you moved and forgot to update the V5c registration document
address with the DVLA?[/quote]
Spouting bollox after being pointlessly pedantic is not a good
look!
There are 2 potential "defences" (for practical purposes) to the
s. 172 charge - whether the notice was served, and whether it
was reasonably practicable to provide the information. Not
receiving the notice is not in itself a complete defence, but if
the circumstances were such that it would not have been
reasonably practicable for the OP to ensure that such notices
were brought to his attention and he was not aware of it, then
it was not reasonably practicable to provide the information.
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
> [quote author=Just234 link=topic=3196.msg37473#msg37473
date=1726734201]
> The speeding charge I was driving my son to hospital - can I
plead not guilty? Or do I plead guilty and ask for mitigating
circumstances?
>
--- End Quote ---
Of course you can (and should currently) plead not guilty,
whether you then continue that is a different matter, if the
S172 notice was properly served (and you have to prove it
wasn't) you will currently be found guilty of the more onerous
S172 offence, as such offering to plead guilty to the speeding
(when you can't then offer a defence) in exchange for the S172
being dropped seems the pragmatic option.[/quote]
I agree that based on what the OP has told us, he should plead
not guilty to both charges. It is uncertain from his account
whether he has sufficient information to enable him to plead
guilty (in theory you cannot plead guilty to an offence without
knowing what the charge is and what material facts are being
alleged - because that is what you are pleading guilty to) -
although that is largely academic.
Some areas send guidance with the SJPN stating that if the
accused pleads guilty to one of the offences, the other will
automatically be dropped. If the OP has been provided with such
guidance, then it might be advantageous to "do the deal" at the
earliest opportunity, or not - depending on the strength of his
defences if the charges went to trial.
The fact that the OP was taking his son to hospital is not in
itself a [complete] defence. It depends on the circumstances. I
am not going to hypothesise about what possible circumstances
might constitute a defence - we apply the law to the facts, not
the other way round.
There is also the question of whether the OP could be asked
whether he was driving when defending the s. 172 charge, or
whether inferences could be made. However, if the OP's defence
to the s. 172 relies largely on his credibility, running a
technical defence to the speeding charge may not be helpful.
--- Quote ---
> Driving your son to hospital is, of itself' meaningless unless
you are suggesting it was some form of an emergency, obviously
to a routine appointment is no different top driving to a book
shop.
--- End Quote ---
That.
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
> [quote author=Just234 link=topic=3196.msg37473#msg37473
date=1726734201]
> There was a driving ban issued on the same day the points were
added to my license but it’s not mentioned in the paperwork
supplied in the email but is shown on my license online -
driving ban due to totting up of points
>
--- End Quote ---
Very unfortunate, this is where applying online is going to
probably be bad, if you contact the court in person and speak to
someone you may get your hearing expedited, whatever you put in
an online application will probably not be looked at until it
reaches the front of the queue - in some time from now.
[/quote]
Also, that.
The ban has been imposed by a court of law. Unless and until a
court of law quashes or suspends the ban, you are banned -
regardless of what defence you may be able to present. The stat
dec would set aside the conviction and sentence, but you are
banned until then - unless you can get a court to suspend it
before then.
#Post#: 37528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: Just234
Date: September 19, 2024, 8:39 am
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Thankyou for all of the above
Really grateful
So just to clarify
Proving that I didn’t receive my mail is a mountain clime I
guess even with a dated solicitors email demonstrating this
exact issue and request for email correspondence due to mail
going missing….?
I do know the full details of the offence I’ve been charged with
as all the information was supplied in email from the court
along with the form link.
The only reason why I know it was me driving the vehicle on that
particular day was because my son broke both bones in his leg
and it was an emergency run to hospital. It wasn’t the best idea
to take him in the car in hindsight but he was in so much pain
with morpheme and gas and air administered when we got to A&e it
was a absolutely traumatic time and will save you the gory
details.
I think I could provide enough to the court to prove this was
extreme circumstances and not a normal appointment or day having
had a clear license for 7 years.
The other question was about the amount of information I add to
the online form- do I write it all out as if presenting my full
case to the court?
The form gives no guidance at all on this.
I’ve spoken to the court and they’ve said submit the online form
and then it will be expedited due to the ban. I just have to
ring the court back in about 2 weeks.
#Post#: 37612--------------------------------------------------
Timescales for Speeding and failed to notify court action
DIR By: Just234
Date: September 20, 2024, 7:15 am
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Please could anyone clarify the timescales for me for the
following
Speeding offence recorded on 01/04/23
Failed to Notify of drivers details 29/08/23
Summons issued 16/01/24
I know there is a 6 month time limit but don’t know when the
clock starts on that time limit. Is it date of speeding offence?
Or the offence of failed to notify date?
Please could anyone clarify
#Post#: 37619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Timescales for Speeding and failed to notify court action
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 20, 2024, 8:18 am
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--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
>
> Please could anyone clarify
>
--- End Quote ---
No. Not from the information provided in your new thread.
Rule #1 Do not start new threads for existing cases.
Also motoring offence prosecutions are instigated by issuing a
written charge, not a summons, so the date of any subsequent
summons is immaterial.
#Post#: 37620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: Just234
Date: September 20, 2024, 8:50 am
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My apologies on my rule break
Please explain where the 6 month rule comes in then please if at
all possible.
#Post#: 37621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: Just234
Date: September 20, 2024, 8:53 am
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And if it’s called a written charge edited to clarify -
Speeding offence recorded on 01/04/23
Failed to Notify of drivers details 29/08/23
Written Charge issued 16/01/24
#Post#: 37623--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: September 20, 2024, 9:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Just234 link ---
>
> And if it’s called a written charge edited to clarify -
>
--- End Quote ---
A Written Charge is called a written charge. A Summons is called
a summons. A stale ham and mustard sandwich is called a stale
ham and mustard sandwich.
You have told us that a summons was issued on 16/01/2024. You
now appear to be saying that if the thing you previously called
a summons is actually a written charge, then that was issued on
16/01/2024. You might as well be talking about a ham sandwich.
What was issued on 16/01/2024? Most official documents have a
title at the top in big letters. Ham sandwiches, not so much.
You tell us what actually happened, and we will explain how the
law applies.
edit: If you are looking for a potential technical defence (and
there is nothing wrong with that), then accurate details are
everything. You are currently banned, and potentially will
remain so until the 6 months expires. We aren't. Who has most to
gain from you posting clear and accurate information?
#Post#: 37624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Failure to notify and driving ban appeal
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: September 20, 2024, 9:58 am
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Given there is apparent confusion as to what the document issued
on 16th January is, you may wish to show us a copy of it.
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