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#Post#: 38254--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 25, 2024, 7:00 am
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Are you liaising with Martin Blackwell as per the other case I
posted?
#Post#: 38263--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: Carlos CGD
Date: September 25, 2024, 8:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Are you liaising with Martin Blackwell as per the other case I
posted?
>
--- End Quote ---
I am, but I think our appeals are at different stages. I have
the notice to owner, I believe he is at a level two complaint
with the council.
#Post#: 38275--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 25, 2024, 9:21 am
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Also get this into the local paper or local website
#Post#: 38527--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: Grant Urismo
Date: September 26, 2024, 8:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Carlos CGD link ---
>
> I am, but I think our appeals are at different stages. I have
the notice to owner, I believe he is at a level two complaint
with the council.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just to emphasise that the formal appeal process
(PCN/NTO/Appeal) is a completely different thing to a complaint
to a Council. Both can co-exist, be at different stages and
proceed at different speeds.
You asked on the other thread what the benefit would be of
getting hold of "a copy of the footway parking resolution made
under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General
Powers) Act 1974 that applies to this road", which Stamfordman
recommended, so I'll attempt to explain. For a PCN to be valid,
the wording of the PCN needs to follow a set of rules AND you
need to have broken a rule, AND that rule needs to have been
communicated to you in the language of traffic signs. A lot of
cases that we see here are won on because the council messed up
one of these 3 bits, so we like to check that the council have
done them all correctly. The way pavement parking works is that
it's generally allowed, except in London where it's banned,
except for a few bits of London where it is officially unbanned
by a London Council, which they do by making a formal resolution
under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General
Powers) Act 1974. The Council then put up signs that match
exactly what the resolution says, and you're then allowed to
park where the signs say you can. Well, that's the theory, but
in practice, we often find that the signs don't match the
resolution. If you prove this to a traffic adjudicator, they
will tear the ticket up for you. This happens often enough for
us to recommend getting hold of the resolution and checking it
pretty much every time we see one of those 'you can park on the
pavement' signs being relied on by a London Council.
#Post#: 40823--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: Carlos CGD
Date: October 15, 2024, 6:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Grant Urismo link ---
>
> [quote author=Carlos CGD link=topic=3172.msg38263#msg38263
date=1727269812]
> I am, but I think our appeals are at different stages. I have
the notice to owner, I believe he is at a level two complaint
with the council.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just to emphasise that the formal appeal process
(PCN/NTO/Appeal) is a completely different thing to a complaint
to a Council. Both can co-exist, be at different stages and
proceed at different speeds.
You asked on the other thread what the benefit would be of
getting hold of "a copy of the footway parking resolution made
under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General
Powers) Act 1974 that applies to this road", which Stamfordman
recommended, so I'll attempt to explain. For a PCN to be valid,
the wording of the PCN needs to follow a set of rules AND you
need to have broken a rule, AND that rule needs to have been
communicated to you in the language of traffic signs. A lot of
cases that we see here are won on because the council messed up
one of these 3 bits, so we like to check that the council have
done them all correctly. The way pavement parking works is that
it's generally allowed, except in London where it's banned,
except for a few bits of London where it is officially unbanned
by a London Council, which they do by making a formal resolution
under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General
Powers) Act 1974. The Council then put up signs that match
exactly what the resolution says, and you're then allowed to
park where the signs say you can. Well, that's the theory, but
in practice, we often find that the signs don't match the
resolution. If you prove this to a traffic adjudicator, they
will tear the ticket up for you. This happens often enough for
us to recommend getting hold of the resolution and checking it
pretty much every time we see one of those 'you can park on the
pavement' signs being relied on by a London Council.
[/quote]
Thank you.
I have logged my appeal to the Notice To Owner and have
requested a copy of the parking resolution order.
I will attach the response from the council as soon as I receive
it.
#Post#: 40897--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 15, 2024, 1:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, can I try and simplify this issue pl.
Traffic signs indicate that footway parking with 2 wheels is
permitted in parts of Darwin Drive.
There are no signs indicating that footway parking is permitted
in Darwin Drive with 4 wheels on the footway.
There are 3 pairs of footway parking signs(a pair being footway
parking is permitted to one side but not the other).
Darwin Drive house numbers are odd/even on opposite sides of the
road.
One pair of signs is situated o/s no. 19 which indicates that
from 19 to no. 73 footway parking with two wheels is permitted.
One pair of signs is situated o/s no.73 indicating that beyond
this point footway parking is not permitted.
One pair is situated o/s no. 34 which indicates that from no.
34-no. 2 2-wheel footway parking is permitted.
Now for the crunch.....
Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway, contrary to
the signs' permission, o/s no. ****?
Please confirm and indicate which house number should be
inserted in ****.
This isn't to say that 4 wheels is not permitted e.g. plenty of
contra indicators that 4-wheel parking is commonplace including
a disabled parking place situated wholly on the footway without
the benefit of a traffic sign indicating that this is permitted
as an exception to the prevailing 2-wheel permission from which
it is reasonable to deduce that the prevailing permission IS 4
wheels and not 2.
But let's get the basics in play first pl.
#Post#: 42604--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: Carlos CGD
Date: October 27, 2024, 7:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, can I try and simplify this issue pl.
>
> Traffic signs indicate that footway parking with 2 wheels is
permitted in parts of Darwin Drive.
>
> There are no signs indicating that footway parking is
permitted in Darwin Drive with 4 wheels on the footway.
>
> There are 3 pairs of footway parking signs(a pair being
footway parking is permitted to one side but not the other).
>
> Darwin Drive house numbers are odd/even on opposite sides of
the road.
>
> One pair of signs is situated o/s no. 19 which indicates that
from 19 to no. 73 footway parking with two wheels is permitted.
>
> One pair of signs is situated o/s no.73 indicating that beyond
this point footway parking is not permitted.
>
> One pair is situated o/s no. 34 which indicates that from no.
34-no. 2 2-wheel footway parking is permitted.
>
> Now for the crunch.....
>
> Your car was parked with 4 wheels on the footway, contrary to
the signs' permission, o/s no. ****?
>
> Please confirm and indicate which house number should be
inserted in ****.
>
> This isn't to say that 4 wheels is not permitted e.g. plenty
of contra indicators that 4-wheel parking is commonplace
including a disabled parking place situated wholly on the
footway without the benefit of a traffic sign indicating that
this is permitted as an exception to the prevailing 2-wheel
permission from which it is reasonable to deduce that the
prevailing permission IS 4 wheels and not 2.
>
> But let's get the basics in play first pl.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for the reply, apologies for getting back to this so
late.
My Vehicle was parked outside number 30.
#Post#: 42685--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: Carlos CGD
Date: October 28, 2024, 7:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So I received this notice as a letter of rejection to all three
appeals, even though I sent them all separately they've dealt
with them all as one, including the one where I was double
ticketed.
Should I just bite the bullet and pay the reduced penalty or do
I stand a chance at the tribunal?
Ive uploaded the letter to the google drive under Ealing
Rejection of Appeals.
Link :
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tSkJe86l067leGVtVFbNzK-rqFNCgkcd?usp=sharing
#Post#: 42688--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: October 28, 2024, 8:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Did you ask for a resolution that sets aside the footway parking
ban?
I can't but still think there must be a way to liaise on a
collective challenge - you won't be happy if you pay and find a
neighbour took it to the tribunal and won.
#Post#: 42699--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Parked on footpath
DIR By: Carlos CGD
Date: October 28, 2024, 9:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Did you ask for a resolution that sets aside the footway
parking ban?
>
> I can't but still think there must be a way to liaise on a
collective challenge - you won't be happy if you pay and find a
neighbour took it to the tribunal and won.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes I asked for it in the appeal letter, but they completely
ignored it and never made mention of it.
Also I know a number of my neighbours already paid the reduced
amount.
Also, I sent three appeals separately, one for my car, one for
my wife's car and the one for the double ticket on my car.
In the rejection letter I received today, they state that I
claim the car was double ticketed and that it would have to be a
separate appeal and they rejected it with this one, but I did
send it separately, I have a separate reference number and never
mentioned the double ticket in this appeal, (I'm reading that
back and it probably makes absolutely no sense).
So basically I sent three separate appeals and received three
separate emails with different reference numbers, but they seem
to have conflated two of them into one.
I am yet to receive the outcome on my wife's car, but seeing as
it's the same letter as my one, I don't think there will be a
different outcome.
I am going to stick with the appeal, because we have been
parking like this for decades without any action from the
council, but I've never appealed anything before, I have
absolutely no idea what I'm doing but for the sheer principle of
what they did and how the council went about it.
How are we supposed to know that anything has changed if they
don't communicate anything to us?
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