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#Post#: 36986--------------------------------------------------
NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway - offence
was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: September 16, 2024, 4:31 am
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Family member received a NIP for doing 64MPH in a 50MPH smart
motorway. He "swears it didn't reduce show the reduced limit" -
what is the general approach in cases like this as it's hardly a
strong defence.
One thing I have noticed is that the alledged offence is dated
1st August 2024, but the letter is dated 11th September 2024 and
he received it this morning on the 16th September - is there a
stipulation that these have to be served within a certain number
of days.
[img]
HTML https://imgur.com/BaDiM0r[/img]
NIP page 1
HTML https://imgur.com/BaDiM0r
#Post#: 36988--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: 666
Date: September 16, 2024, 4:42 am
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A NIP must be served to the driver or Registered Keeper within
14 days of the offence. Since the police don't know who was
driving, it is sent to the RK.
When a NIP is received "late" we almost invariably find that the
recipient is not the RK, and a NIP has been sent to the RK, who
has nominated the driver. There is no time limit on any
subsequent NIPs.
Is your relative the RK? If in doubt, does he have the V5C
(logbook) and are his details correct?
#Post#: 36989--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: September 16, 2024, 4:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 666 link ---
>
> A NIP must be served to the driver or Registered Keeper within
14 days of the offence. Since the police don't know who was
driving, it is sent to the RK.
>
> When a NIP is received "late" we almost invariably find that
the recipient is not the RK, and a NIP has been sent to the RK,
who has nominated the driver. There is no time limit on any
subsequent NIPs.
>
> Is your relative the RK? If in doubt, does he have the V5C
(logbook) and are his details correct?
>
--- End Quote ---
Ah, that didn't occur to me, this must be his work van as he has
confirmed he is the Registered Driver, but the Registered
Keeper.
So presumably, the NIP was sent to the company within 14 days,
and then they responded to confirm that he was the driver at the
time and thus the NIP today.
I will advise him to check with his company to see the date
stamp of the very first NIP to see if it falls within 14 days or
not. Appreciate that he's only defence is a memory of the speed
not being displayed on the digital board, so nothing tangible at
all, if we presume he was right in that regard, how would one
even appeal these?
#Post#: 36990--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: September 16, 2024, 4:54 am
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Where is he registered as the “Registered Driver”?
#Post#: 36993--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: September 16, 2024, 5:17 am
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> Where is he registered as the “Registered Driver”?
>
--- End Quote ---
Presumably at work; it's his work vehicle, so I'm guessing they
have him as the assigned driver and therefore provided the
Police with his details when they received the initial NIP.
P.S. I've never had a work vehicle, so not sure if "Registered
Driver" is a formal term or just the office having his name
scribbled in their paper logbook. I'll ask him if he has a
logbook and see what is recorded in there.
#Post#: 36997--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: 666
Date: September 16, 2024, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Charsiu link ---
>
>
>
> I will advise him to check with his company to see the date
stamp of the very first NIP to see if it falls within 14 days or
not. Appreciate that he's only defence is a memory of the speed
not being displayed on the digital board, so nothing tangible at
all, if we presume he was right in that regard, how would one
even appeal these?
>
--- End Quote ---
Nothing to appeal at this stage. After he responds naming
himself, he will be offered a speed awareness court or a fixed
penalty (£100 and 3 points), assuming he is eligible.
If he does not accept one of those offers, he will in due course
be able to plead not guilty at court. The prosecution will
present evidence of his guilt (photos, operator statements,
etc), and in his defence he will say what?
If (when?) found guilty he will get the same 3 points, but the
cost will be nearer £1,000. Much more if he employs a lawyer, or
expert witnesses are needed.
#Post#: 36999--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: September 16, 2024, 5:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Charsiu link ---
>
> not sure if "Registered Driver" is a formal term or just the
office having his name scribbled in their paper logbook.
>
--- End Quote ---
The latter, there is no 'register' of drivers, it's just their
own record.
As above, he can contest the allegation by allowing it to
progress to court but that would be foolish unless a potential
defence has been identified.
He can contact the Safety camera team and ask for a copy of
photos "to help confirm the driver's ID", not demanding
'evidence' which he's not entitled to at this stage, if they
supply photos and it was a HADECS3 device it will show the
gantry and limit he's accused of transgressing.
#Post#: 37001--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: Charsiu
Date: September 16, 2024, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the advice guys.
As it's a work vehicle I'll advise him to check with work to see
if the first NIP was received within 14 days. If it is within 14
days, then there's no grounds to appeal (realistically and
reasonably) and therefore he should just accept his fate.
If after 14 days, I'll come back on here for further guidance :)
Generally speaking, is it worth pursuing to see the evidence and
whether the device was calibrated recently? I don't fancy
sending him down paths with minute chances of success.
#Post#: 37003--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: roythebus
Date: September 16, 2024, 6:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The usual view is that he may be offered the sit and get bored
for £100 course, a lot cheaper than trying to question the
calibration of cameras etc.
#Post#: 37010--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP received for alledged speeding on a Smart Motorway -
offence was 5 weeks ago.
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: September 16, 2024, 6:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Charsiu link ---
>
> As it's a work vehicle I'll advise him to check with work to
see if the first NIP was received within 14 days.
>
--- End Quote ---
Don't forget the company may lease the vehicle and not be the
registered keeper, it's when the registered keeper were served
it that matters.
--- Quote from: Charsiu link ---
>
> there's no grounds to appeal
>
--- End Quote ---
As pointed out before, it is NOT 'appeal' it's having a defence,
there is no 'appeal' at this stage.
--- Quote from: Charsiu link ---
>
> Generally speaking, is it worth pursuing to see the evidence
and whether the device was calibrated recently?
>
--- End Quote ---
As no calibration is needed to convict, the lack of one wouldn't
help him.
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