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       #Post#: 40291--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
       bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: October 10, 2024, 6:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: anthomy93 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3127.msg39940#msg39940
       date=1728468100]
       > Please to post up the letter of rejection.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       letter of rejection
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/ID9MwBv
       I believe I have a good chance appealing this as they have
       conveniently cut the footage as soon as my brake was released
       and continued to reverse when pedestrians stopped crossing, but
       space also opened up at the front simultaneously
       Can someone advise me on the next steps please?
       Thank you in advance!
       [/quote]
       All of the letter, please.
       #Post#: 40309--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
       bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
   DIR By: anthomy93
       Date: October 11, 2024, 3:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > [quote author=anthomy93 link=topic=3127.msg40272#msg40272
       date=1728592368]
       > [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3127.msg39940#msg39940
       date=1728468100]
       > Please to post up the letter of rejection.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       letter of rejection
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/ID9MwBv
       I believe I have a good chance appealing this as they have
       conveniently cut the footage as soon as my brake was released
       and continued to reverse when pedestrians stopped crossing, but
       space also opened up at the front simultaneously
       Can someone advise me on the next steps please?
       Thank you in advance!
       [/quote]
       All of the letter, please.
       [/quote]
       apologies..
       here is the full letter
       letter of rejection
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/efEON2i
       #Post#: 40443--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
       bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
   DIR By: anthomy93
       Date: October 11, 2024, 3:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Should I use the same reasoning in my formal appeal?
       "I challenge liability for this PCN on the grounds that the
       contravention did not occur.
       Having had the opportunity to view the video footage I can see
       it shows that no contravention has taken place. The Regulations
       provide "…no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box
       junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box due to
       the presence of stationary vehicles." The footage shows space
       beyond the box junction opened up as camera pans out which would
       be sufficient to accommodate my vehicle. There was not a point
       in time where white car ahead of me and my car were
       simultaneously stationary. As such my vehicle was not forced to
       stop where it did due to stationary vehicles and it follows that
       no contravention took place.
       You can also see that I was in the yellow box for only long
       enough to change my gears to reverse as there was space behind
       me, however I was reversing cautiously as people were crossing
       behind me. The recording cut right after you can clearly see
       that I was continuing to reverse.
       I refer you to the decision of adjudicator Jane Anderson in Katy
       Wong v Royal Borough of Kingston (2140345227)
       For these reasons, it follows that the notice must be cancelled.
       Yours faithfully,"
       #Post#: 40471--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
       bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
   DIR By: anthomy93
       Date: October 12, 2024, 5:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > [quote author=anthomy93 link=topic=3127.msg40272#msg40272
       date=1728592368]
       > [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3127.msg39940#msg39940
       date=1728468100]
       > Please to post up the letter of rejection.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       letter of rejection
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/ID9MwBv
       I believe I have a good chance appealing this as they have
       conveniently cut the footage as soon as my brake was released
       and continued to reverse when pedestrians stopped crossing, but
       space also opened up at the front simultaneously
       Can someone advise me on the next steps please?
       Thank you in advance!
       [/quote]
       All of the letter, please.
       [/quote]
       Could you advise me how to proceed next after this rejection
       letter?
       #Post#: 40527--------------------------------------------------
       Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
   DIR By: anthomy93
       Date: October 13, 2024, 7:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi,
       hope you're well!
       I have recently informally challenged this PCN on the grounds of
       contravention did not occur.
       I received a notice of rejection and I would like to go ahead to
       formal appeal to adjudicator, but not sure what to do next.
       These are the letters.
  HTML https://imgur.com/JrfHhaH
  HTML https://imgur.com/7RHExEg
  HTML https://imgur.com/rKBtF6H
  HTML https://imgur.com/R7dQdET
       Notice of rejection
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/efEON2i
       This was my appeal to the council.
       "I challenge liability for this PCN on the grounds that the
       contravention did not occur.
       Having had the opportunity to view the video footage I can see
       it shows that no contravention has taken place. The Regulations
       provide "…no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box
       junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box due to
       the presence of stationary vehicles." The footage shows space
       beyond the box junction opened up as camera pans out which would
       be sufficient to accommodate my vehicle. There was not a point
       in time where white car ahead of me and my car were
       simultaneously stationary. As such my vehicle was not forced to
       stop where it did due to stationary vehicles and it follows that
       no contravention took place.
       You can also see that I was in the yellow box for only long
       enough to change my gears to reverse as there was space behind
       me, however I was reversing cautiously as people were crossing
       behind me. The recording cut right after you can clearly see
       that I was continuing to reverse.
       I refer you to the decision of adjudicator Andrew Harman in
       Carlo Bergamini v Transport for London (2220539159) and
       adjudicator Jane Anderson in Katy Wong v Royal Borough of
       Kingston (2140345227)
       For these reasons, it follows that the notice must be cancelled.
       Yours faithfully,"
       #Post#: 40530--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
   DIR By: MrChips
       Date: October 13, 2024, 7:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Am I getting deja vu? Have seen a very similar case at this
       junction not that long ago.
       Another angle that night be successful is that you didn't have
       to stop where you did as you left such a large gap to the
       vehicle in front.  I've not done the calculations but it's
       likely you could have continued crossing the box at a slowish
       pace and the white car in front would have cleared (or at least
       started moving) by the time you got there.
       #Post#: 40531--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
   DIR By: anthomy93
       Date: October 13, 2024, 7:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: MrChips link ---
       >
       > Am I getting deja vu? Have seen a very similar case at this
       junction not that long ago.
       >
       > Another angle that night be successful is that you didn't have
       to stop where you did as you left such a large gap to the
       vehicle in front.  I've not done the calculations but it's
       likely you could have continued crossing the box at a slowish
       pace and the white car in front would have cleared (or at least
       started moving) by the time you got there.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       yeah that's true, in hindsight I could have moved at a slower
       pace.
       would I have a chance with my appeal to adjudicator?
       #Post#: 40533--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: October 13, 2024, 8:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Quote from: MrChips on Today at 01:46:38 pm
       
       --- Quote ---
       >  Am I getting deja vu? Have seen a very similar case at this
       junction not that long ago.
       --- End Quote ---
       This appears to be the same case as
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/waltham-forest-contravention-31-entered-yellow-box-lea-bridge-road-e10-rigg-appr/msg40471/#msg40471
       I've asked a Mod to merge.
       #Post#: 40559--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
       bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: October 13, 2024, 12:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You submitted formalreps to the council; there is no first
       informal stage like a parking PCN. Next stage as per their
       letter of rejection, is to appeal to the adjudicators at London
       Tribunals.
       I have to say, after looking at the video, that I don't think
       you have a strong enough case to risk the extra £65. They have
       re-offered the discount, but see what others say before making
       your mind up.
       #Post#: 40562--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
       bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
   DIR By: anthomy93
       Date: October 13, 2024, 1:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > You submitted formalreps to the council; there is no first
       informal stage like a parking PCN. Next stage as per their
       letter of rejection, is to appeal to the adjudicators at London
       Tribunals.
       >
       > I have to say, after looking at the video, that I don't think
       you have a strong enough case to risk the extra £65. They have
       re-offered the discount, but see what others say before making
       your mind up.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Thank you Incandescent!
       I do appreciate your input.
       Is it too technical that on the video I was reversing whilst the
       car at the front was stationary and when I hit the brake (whilst
       waiting for the pedestrians to cross) the front car started
       moving, so the 2 vehicles were not stationary simultaneously?
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