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#Post#: 40291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 10, 2024, 6:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: anthomy93 link ---
>
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3127.msg39940#msg39940
date=1728468100]
> Please to post up the letter of rejection.
>
--- End Quote ---
letter of rejection
HTML https://imgur.com/a/ID9MwBv
I believe I have a good chance appealing this as they have
conveniently cut the footage as soon as my brake was released
and continued to reverse when pedestrians stopped crossing, but
space also opened up at the front simultaneously
Can someone advise me on the next steps please?
Thank you in advance!
[/quote]
All of the letter, please.
#Post#: 40309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
DIR By: anthomy93
Date: October 11, 2024, 3:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=anthomy93 link=topic=3127.msg40272#msg40272
date=1728592368]
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3127.msg39940#msg39940
date=1728468100]
> Please to post up the letter of rejection.
>
--- End Quote ---
letter of rejection
HTML https://imgur.com/a/ID9MwBv
I believe I have a good chance appealing this as they have
conveniently cut the footage as soon as my brake was released
and continued to reverse when pedestrians stopped crossing, but
space also opened up at the front simultaneously
Can someone advise me on the next steps please?
Thank you in advance!
[/quote]
All of the letter, please.
[/quote]
apologies..
here is the full letter
letter of rejection
HTML https://imgur.com/a/efEON2i
#Post#: 40443--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
DIR By: anthomy93
Date: October 11, 2024, 3:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Should I use the same reasoning in my formal appeal?
"I challenge liability for this PCN on the grounds that the
contravention did not occur.
Having had the opportunity to view the video footage I can see
it shows that no contravention has taken place. The Regulations
provide "…no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box
junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box due to
the presence of stationary vehicles." The footage shows space
beyond the box junction opened up as camera pans out which would
be sufficient to accommodate my vehicle. There was not a point
in time where white car ahead of me and my car were
simultaneously stationary. As such my vehicle was not forced to
stop where it did due to stationary vehicles and it follows that
no contravention took place.
You can also see that I was in the yellow box for only long
enough to change my gears to reverse as there was space behind
me, however I was reversing cautiously as people were crossing
behind me. The recording cut right after you can clearly see
that I was continuing to reverse.
I refer you to the decision of adjudicator Jane Anderson in Katy
Wong v Royal Borough of Kingston (2140345227)
For these reasons, it follows that the notice must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,"
#Post#: 40471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
DIR By: anthomy93
Date: October 12, 2024, 5:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> [quote author=anthomy93 link=topic=3127.msg40272#msg40272
date=1728592368]
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=3127.msg39940#msg39940
date=1728468100]
> Please to post up the letter of rejection.
>
--- End Quote ---
letter of rejection
HTML https://imgur.com/a/ID9MwBv
I believe I have a good chance appealing this as they have
conveniently cut the footage as soon as my brake was released
and continued to reverse when pedestrians stopped crossing, but
space also opened up at the front simultaneously
Can someone advise me on the next steps please?
Thank you in advance!
[/quote]
All of the letter, please.
[/quote]
Could you advise me how to proceed next after this rejection
letter?
#Post#: 40527--------------------------------------------------
Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
DIR By: anthomy93
Date: October 13, 2024, 7:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
hope you're well!
I have recently informally challenged this PCN on the grounds of
contravention did not occur.
I received a notice of rejection and I would like to go ahead to
formal appeal to adjudicator, but not sure what to do next.
These are the letters.
HTML https://imgur.com/JrfHhaH
HTML https://imgur.com/7RHExEg
HTML https://imgur.com/rKBtF6H
HTML https://imgur.com/R7dQdET
Notice of rejection
HTML https://imgur.com/a/efEON2i
This was my appeal to the council.
"I challenge liability for this PCN on the grounds that the
contravention did not occur.
Having had the opportunity to view the video footage I can see
it shows that no contravention has taken place. The Regulations
provide "…no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box
junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box due to
the presence of stationary vehicles." The footage shows space
beyond the box junction opened up as camera pans out which would
be sufficient to accommodate my vehicle. There was not a point
in time where white car ahead of me and my car were
simultaneously stationary. As such my vehicle was not forced to
stop where it did due to stationary vehicles and it follows that
no contravention took place.
You can also see that I was in the yellow box for only long
enough to change my gears to reverse as there was space behind
me, however I was reversing cautiously as people were crossing
behind me. The recording cut right after you can clearly see
that I was continuing to reverse.
I refer you to the decision of adjudicator Andrew Harman in
Carlo Bergamini v Transport for London (2220539159) and
adjudicator Jane Anderson in Katy Wong v Royal Borough of
Kingston (2140345227)
For these reasons, it follows that the notice must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,"
#Post#: 40530--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
DIR By: MrChips
Date: October 13, 2024, 7:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Am I getting deja vu? Have seen a very similar case at this
junction not that long ago.
Another angle that night be successful is that you didn't have
to stop where you did as you left such a large gap to the
vehicle in front. I've not done the calculations but it's
likely you could have continued crossing the box at a slowish
pace and the white car in front would have cleared (or at least
started moving) by the time you got there.
#Post#: 40531--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
DIR By: anthomy93
Date: October 13, 2024, 7:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> Am I getting deja vu? Have seen a very similar case at this
junction not that long ago.
>
> Another angle that night be successful is that you didn't have
to stop where you did as you left such a large gap to the
vehicle in front. I've not done the calculations but it's
likely you could have continued crossing the box at a slowish
pace and the white car in front would have cleared (or at least
started moving) by the time you got there.
>
--- End Quote ---
yeah that's true, in hindsight I could have moved at a slower
pace.
would I have a chance with my appeal to adjudicator?
#Post#: 40533--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box PCN - Waltham Forest Council
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 13, 2024, 8:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MrChips on Today at 01:46:38 pm
--- Quote ---
> Am I getting deja vu? Have seen a very similar case at this
junction not that long ago.
--- End Quote ---
This appears to be the same case as
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/waltham-forest-contravention-31-entered-yellow-box-lea-bridge-road-e10-rigg-appr/msg40471/#msg40471
I've asked a Mod to merge.
#Post#: 40559--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 13, 2024, 12:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You submitted formalreps to the council; there is no first
informal stage like a parking PCN. Next stage as per their
letter of rejection, is to appeal to the adjudicators at London
Tribunals.
I have to say, after looking at the video, that I don't think
you have a strong enough case to risk the extra £65. They have
re-offered the discount, but see what others say before making
your mind up.
#Post#: 40562--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest - contravention 31 entered yellow box - Lea
bridge road E10 / Rigg approach E10
DIR By: anthomy93
Date: October 13, 2024, 1:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> You submitted formalreps to the council; there is no first
informal stage like a parking PCN. Next stage as per their
letter of rejection, is to appeal to the adjudicators at London
Tribunals.
>
> I have to say, after looking at the video, that I don't think
you have a strong enough case to risk the extra £65. They have
re-offered the discount, but see what others say before making
your mind up.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you Incandescent!
I do appreciate your input.
Is it too technical that on the video I was reversing whilst the
car at the front was stationary and when I hit the brake (whilst
waiting for the pedestrians to cross) the front car started
moving, so the 2 vehicles were not stationary simultaneously?
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