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#Post#: 36185--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: mdar50743
Date: September 9, 2024, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> You would also be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015
(CRA) even if the hire agreement did allow Hertz to pay the PCN
as it is an unfair term.
>
> Have a read of section 62 of the Act
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/62.
Also,
Section 57(4) applies.
>
> You should point out to Hertz that if they pay the PCN,
thereby removing any right you have to appeal it, they are in
breach of section 57(4)(c) of Chapter 4 of the CRA 2015 which
states:
>
> [quote]57 Liability that cannot be excluded or restricted
>
> (4)That also means that a term of a contract to supply
services is not binding on the consumer to the extent that it
would —
>
> [indent](c) allow a trader to put a person at a disadvantage
as a result of pursuing such a right or remedy[/indent]
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Thank you everyone for your replies.
I have received a reply from Hertz. But I can't upload, it keeps
saying Uploader Full? If anyone knows how to fix please advise.
HTML https://ibb.co/7jz63GX
As Hertz have already paid for the fines, can I ask what is my
course of action now?
#Post#: 36190--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: slapdash
Date: September 9, 2024, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree it is an unfair term.
The issue becomes a practical one. Are you aware of:-
- Any hire company accept the argument and either refunding or
not charging.
- A credit provider acception a section 75 claim.
- An FoS decision in favour.
- A successful claim for reimbursement from the hire company via
court.
The practical problem being the hire company will just take it
from the credit card if they don't transfer liability (usually
on the fallacious basis of "we were doing you a favour to stop
it escalating"). Then they have the money and one of the
remedies above will be required.
An alternative strategy might be to cancel the card to attempt
to prevent collection (noting that some banking groups attempt
to give themselves the right to just debit any ingroup new
card).
At least this way a victim can simply wait until a claim issued
and defend it.
It's a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
#Post#: 36191--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: slapdash
Date: September 9, 2024, 5:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=880]mdar50743[/member] Have you approached McDonalds,
they may have the power to instruct MET to cancel. There was a
recent occurrence where they have been receptive.
#Post#: 36195--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: b789
Date: September 9, 2024, 6:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How have they charged you? Have they taken the money from your
credit card? If so, you raise a dispute with the credit card
company and they will charge back the funds while they
investigate.
You also raise a dispute with Hertz that what they have paid is
not and never was a "Penalty" Charge Notice. Challenge them to
show you the word "Penalty" anywhere on the NtK they received.
Challenge them to show you the words "fine" or "offence" too.
Ask them in what way is MET parking an "authority" that can
issue a "Penalty" Charge Notice.
Point out to Hertz that what was received was a "PARKING" Charge
Notice. It is not a "penalty" or a "fine" from any "authority".
It is simply an invoice from an UNREGULATED private parking
company.
You have still not shown us the exact wording from your hire
agreement that mentions parking charges. No matter what it says,
by paying the PCN, Herts have removed your right to appeal and
get it cancelled. They are members of the BVRLA and there are
guidelines they must follow.
Use the following as a guide on how you should format your
complaint to Hertz:
--- Quote ---
> BVRLA guidelines for hire car companies regarding parking
charges from unregulated private parking companies emphasise
proper handling and transferring of liability. In situations
where a hire company like Hertz mistakenly pays a Parking Charge
Notice (PCN), creates significant legal issues under the
Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA).
>
> 1. Transferring Liability, Not Paying the Charge:
>
> Notice to Keeper (NtK): When the hire company receives an NtK,
their responsibility under the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA)
2012 is to transfer liability to the hirer by providing the
hirer's details and relevant documents (such as a copy of the
rental agreement).
>
> The BVRLA advises that hire companies should follow this legal
process and not pay the parking charge on behalf of the hirer.
Paying the PCN deprives the hirer of their right to appeal, and
is especially problematic if the NtK explicitly mentions that
payment extinguishes the right to contest the charge.
>
> 2. Right to Appeal:
>
> If the hire company pays the PCN and tells the hirer they can
appeal for a refund, this is in complete contradiction with the
NtK's terms stating that payment voids the right to appeal. This
would place the hirer in an unfair position, potentially
violating Part 1, Chapter 4, Section 57(4)(c) of the CRA 2015,
which prevents a company from putting the consumer (hirer) at a
disadvantage for pursuing their rights (in this case, the right
to appeal the PCN).
>
> 3. Unfair Terms and CRA 2015 Compliance:
>
> Any clause in a hire agreement allowing the hire company to
pay a PCN without allowing the hirer a chance to appeal is
deemed unfair under the CRA 2015. Section 57(4)(c) explicitly
prohibits contractual terms that put a consumer at a
disadvantage when exercising their rights, such as appealing a
PCN.
>
> The BVRLA guidelines advise hire companies to ensure their
contracts do not contain unfair terms and to allow hirers the
opportunity to exercise their appeal rights, especially when
dealing with unregulated PPCs. Unregulated PPCs often issue
questionable charges, which hirers may be able to contest
successfully.
>
> 4. Administration Fees:
>
> While BVRLA members may charge an administration fee for
handling parking charges, they must still follow the law in
transferring liability, ensuring that the hirer has the
opportunity to appeal the charge before it is paid.
>
> 5. Best Practices for Dealing with Unregulated PPCs:
>
> The BVRLA stresses that hire companies should handle parking
charges from unregulated PPCs cautiously. They should follow all
legal procedures to ensure that hirers are not unfairly
disadvantaged.
>
> Unregulated PPCs, whether they are part of the British Parking
Association (BPA) or International Parking Community (IPC),
operate outside formal regulation and their charges may be
disputable. As such, hirers must be given every opportunity to
challenge these charges before they are paid.
>
> The BVRLA guidelines encourage hire companies to avoid paying
PCNs on behalf of hirers and instead transfer liability
correctly under PoFA. Doing otherwise violates the CRA 2015 by
depriving hirers of their legal right to appeal, particularly in
cases where payment precludes further contestation.
--- End Quote ---
Put together a complaint to Hertz and advise them if they are
still unsure of their legal position, they should pass the
complaint to their legal advisors as you are not liable for
their mistake and breach of your consumer rights. Please show us
what you intend to send them.
#Post#: 36219--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: September 9, 2024, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In addition you could/should complain to the DVLA, your details
have been requested under the 'KADOE contract' which is for
PARKING CHARGES. As the sign makes clear the car wasn't
'parking' (ahem) but 'charging' the details shouldn't have been
requested under that contract.
KADOE contract
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a81a0c7e5274a2e8ab55036/Annex_A_-_KADOE_Fee_Paying_Contract_V4.pdf
#Post#: 36245--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: mdar50743
Date: September 9, 2024, 2:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> I agree it is an unfair term.
>
> The issue becomes a practical one. Are you aware of:-
>
> - Any hire company accept the argument and either refunding or
not charging.
> - A credit provider acception a section 75 claim.
> - An FoS decision in favour.
> - A successful claim for reimbursement from the hire company
via court.
>
> The practical problem being the hire company will just take it
from the credit card if they don't transfer liability (usually
on the fallacious basis of "we were doing you a favour to stop
it escalating"). Then they have the money and one of the
remedies above will be required.
>
> An alternative strategy might be to cancel the card to attempt
to prevent collection (noting that some banking groups attempt
to give themselves the right to just debit any ingroup new
card).
>
> At least this way a victim can simply wait until a claim
issued and defend it.
>
> It's a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
>
--- End Quote ---
There are many issues with my case:
1) I have used a Debit Card (which Hertz do accept). At the
time, I didn’t have enough funds to use my Credit Card. As per
their T&C’s they have already charged my account.
2) Section 75 can’t be used in this case as I have a Debit Card.
However, there’s “reverse the transaction” and get my money
back via chargeback. If I did go down this route, I may have
problems with Hertz if I want to hire again?
#Post#: 36247--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: mdar50743
Date: September 9, 2024, 2:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> [member=880]mdar50743[/member] Have you approached McDonalds,
they may have the power to instruct MET to cancel. There was a
recent occurrence where they have been receptive.
>
--- End Quote ---
I did ask the Manager at McDonald’s and he said I should ask
Instavolt to ask for evidence of the charge and submit a appeal.
Where should I go for approaching McDonald’s? Is it the actual
McDonald’s or Corporate email?
#Post#: 36255--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 9, 2024, 3:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Where's the PCN gone??
#Post#: 36276--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: b789
Date: September 9, 2024, 6:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There are other hire companies besides Hertz. If you can get the
transaction reversed, then you should do so. If you can’t, you
can always cancel the debit card if there are other pending
PCNs.
If you can’t get your money back for whatever reason, then you
would have to sue Hertz yourself for the money they have
unlawfully taken from you. This is a straight forward process
and is done online through the Money Claim On Line (MCOL)
website. You would need to send Hertz a Letter of Claim (LoC)
giving them 14 days to refund the money or else you will file a
claim in the county court.
If they fail to refund the money, you would then file a claim
for the amount they owe you, presumably £100 plus the admin fee
(£45?). For a claim under £300, the fee is £35 and if you are
successful, you get the amount claimed and the fee back.
#Post#: 36315--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN EV Charging McDonald’s Fine
DIR By: mdar50743
Date: September 10, 2024, 6:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Where's the PCN gone??
>
--- End Quote ---
The PCN goes straight to Hertz (the hirer). I don't receive the
Fine, as per their T&C's they automatically pay the fines and
charge a admin fee.
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