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#Post#: 35959--------------------------------------------------
New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after observing
for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 6, 2024, 5:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A vehicle was spotted at a parking bay on a Red Route in New
Kent Road. Apparently, parking restrictions apply between 7AM
and 7PM at this bay, so the vehicle was first spotted (according
to TFL evidence) 11 minutes before the restrictions ended, and
the PCN contravention time states the contravention occurred 9
minutes before the parking restrictions ended.
TE9 and TE7 forms were
Considering only a 3-minute observation period was maintained,
is the PNC flawed? It seems contrary to the guidance published
by TFL
HTML https://content.tfl.gov.uk/myths-and-complaints-about-red-route-enforcement.pdf.
Additionally, the pictures obviously (IMHO) do not provide
evidence that the vehicle was parked in the bay in a manner that
was not permitted. They do not clearly show whether a blue badge
was present or not and if valid loading/unloading activities
were being performed.
Another observation is that the camera seems to have changed
between December 2022 and the current one (pictures below).
However, TFL has stated in their FOI that they don’t need any
approvals to change the cameras.
@cp8757 I know you had an interesting case with TFL about
approved cameras. Would any of that apply to this case? In the
FOI, they invoked their exemption rights. They refused to
provide camera details since they are withholding the
identification of cameras, which could reveal if the camera was
a ULEZ one or not (public interest exemption). So, the only way
to get details of whether the camera is approved will be subject
to TFL pleadings at court regarding this matter.
PCN number: GX13671118
VRM: V11KDV
Location of alleged contravention: Outside 173a New Kent Road
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/iAUq92AGqeADoQiS6
Alleged Contravention date and time: 09 March 2024 at 18:51
Current status: Notice of Debt Registration Issued
PCN Outstanding amount (as on 06-Sep-2024): £ 250.00
TE9 & TE7 filed with TEC (rejected by TEC): 26-Jun-2024 -
Redacted copy uploaded at this link
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S8J-VJHQXMWlJG4HztGsjQlup8wTodsZ/<br
/>
Location of CCTV camera: Approximately at the junction of New
Kent Rd / Balfour Street (pictures below)
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/Djx8yEJkeqLjKNsD6
O/S 163-183 NEW KENT ROAD SE1
FOI request for camera details: FOI-0915-2425
HTML https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0915-2425
Current CCTV camera: Replaced at some point between Aug 2022 and
Dec 2022
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vghNp9B0zDibTsdRx-xpiD7BfMUZncE9/
Interestingly, TFL has started forcing Google Maps to
redact/pixelate the camera's pictures (possibly to align with
their position of trying to hide ULEZ cameras).
Previous CCTV camera: Still present on Aug 2022
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JhrCSiApeo9vblnAeCxuxxhdqAMn7xVT/
PCN evidence 1: 18:49.36.7 GMT -
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=100s7CPSKySIKKgM_404Y_YahnmRCTuzW
PCN evidence 2: 18:49.39.3 GMT -
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=19SHMafWIV5L6SW96xEf-6X1pTZBEYoXD
PCN evidence 3: 18:51.33.3 GMT -
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1SnExlJ5ZPExakJsafkueyd5qpskmR81_[/b]
#Post#: 35960--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 6, 2024, 6:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=2106]FaeLLe[/member] where's the TEC rejection?
#Post#: 35961--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 6, 2024, 6:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. I was going to say what's going on with:
You didn't get the PCN?
What do you mean:
TE9 & TE7 filed with TEC (rejected by TEC)
#Post#: 35962--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 6, 2024, 6:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [member=2106]FaeLLe[/member] where's the TEC rejection?
>
--- End Quote ---
I was told by TEC that the rejection should have been sent to be
my the Applicant and there is no reason provided by the Court
Officer.
Would you like me to pay for a copy of the rejection? The TEC
agent said I will not get anything of use within it as the court
officer does not have to provide a rejection.
Should I do a SAR with TFL as well?
#Post#: 35964--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 6, 2024, 6:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Indeed. I was going to say what's going on with:
>
> You didn't get the PCN?
>
> What do you mean:
> TE9 & TE7 filed with TEC (rejected by TEC)
>
--- End Quote ---
Registered keeper became aware of the PCN from the resident of
the previous address (it was the order for recovery posted out I
think). Unfortunately, they went on holiday so they could only
give me the PCN number.
The registered keeper has records showing that the DVLA was
still processing the address change on V5C in April 2024; TFL
batched PCN in March 2024.
The registered keeper then filed TE9 and TE7 with TEC, which
were rejected (I became aware of this by calling TEC). I believe
the TEC rejection was posted to the company address included on
the TEC forms.
A company correspondence address was used since the registered
keeper did not have a fixed abode (the company refused to
release the post to me when it went into liquidation).
From my recent experience dealing with PCNs from Southwark, I
have learned that the address mentioned on TEC forms is being
ignored, and they are continuing to correspond to the original
address.
#Post#: 36328--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 10, 2024, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I paid for a copy of the order and TEC sent it to me this
morning: TEC decision after filing TE9 and TE3 form - 03 Sep
2024
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lbhDygJ7lZN85D3fBlTkQ5geWxjbFRsZ/
Contrary to what the agent told me last time it seems the Charge
Certificate has been cancelled and TFL was notified.
What should my next steps be?
- I have already updated the correct address with TEC
- Should I update my address with TFL? I guess through
correspondence with their PCN team and Data Privacy team as a
GDPR request?
- Wait for NtO and make representations?
Do the points above make sense as grounds for appeal be once I
receive the NtO (basically no observation period, PCN issued not
in compliance with TFL enforcement policies and the images do
not demonstrate contravention)?
#Post#: 36479--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 11, 2024, 12:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=2106]FaeLLe[/member] as far as I understand the
position, your witness statement was filed with TEC on the
ground that the original PCN was not received.
TFL are required to use the address on the TE9 form, but in
practice it doesn't matter what address they use as you don't
need to receive the new PCN, you just need to know that it has
been issued. This can be done by checking the PCN on a regular
basis on
HTML https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn
and
looking at the PCN status (check once a week), once the PCN has
been reissued a new entry will appear stating "PCN Batched",
once that happens you can make representations irrespective of
the fact that you have not received the PCN in your hands.
In the meantime please call TFL on 0343 222 3333 and ask for the
video, they will send you a DVD in the post.
I also suggest you make a subject access request to TFL as this
has previously put PCNs on hold for a month, and if they don't
issue a fresh PCN within 28 days then they'll be out of time.
Lastly when you do eventually make representations, include a
request for the make and model of the camera in the
representation itself, these requests get dealt with by a
different team and they'll disclose the camera information
without any fuss.
#Post#: 36709--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 13, 2024, 3:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Raised a SAR through email using their form with the same
content in body of email along with required documents.
I have my fingers crossed now.
#Post#: 36723--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: September 13, 2024, 4:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I just checked the PCN status, and it seems they have 'Batched'
the PCN on 13-Sep-2024 (today).
Current status: PCN Issued
Outstanding amount: £ 80.00
PCN status history
13 September 2024 PCN Batched
N/A
13 September 2024 On Hold: SUS40 - Statutory
Declaration Receipt
N/A
10 September 2024 On Hold: SUS40 - Statutory
Declaration Receipt
N/A
08 July 2024 On Hold: SUS40 - Statutory
Declaration Receipt
N/A
02 July 2024 On Hold: SUS36 - OoT Statutory
Declaration Notification Received
N/A
#Post#: 48676--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Kent Road - TFL Red Route Parking bay - PCN after
observing for 3 minutes
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: December 6, 2024, 12:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
After a long period of inactivity the status suddenly changed to
Charge Certificate batched!
Is this the right process?
Status history
27 November 2024
Charge Certificate Batched
N/A
11 October 2024
Representation submitted Under review
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