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#Post#: 35949--------------------------------------------------
Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds car
park.
DIR By: maisiethecat
Date: September 6, 2024, 3:55 pm
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evening all, i was recommended to post on here for some advice.
My 20yr old daughter has had a notice come through the post
advising her to pay £100 for overstaying the parking at a local
mc donalds car park. her and her friend, got some food and sat
chatting in mc donalds from 20.52hrs and departed at 23.01hrs.
quote how someone can spend this long in mc donalds is beyond
me, shes a student so funds are tight with her part time job.
hardest part is the notice came through when we were on holiday
and have just got back last night so we have missed the window
for reduce payment.
is it worth talking to mc donalds, google says mc donalds
employ private companies to put ubers and people off using the
car park for shopping, there is nothing near by to this mc
donalds and especially at that time of night.
i've attached the notice.
thanks, even if its a case of lesson learn't for my daughter,
mc donalds have parking charges after a certain time.
thanks
edit. i will have to find another way of putting the notices
up, saying upload folder is full so they wont post
#Post#: 35951--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: maisiethecat
Date: September 6, 2024, 4:04 pm
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HTML https://ibb.co/6sXDkwq
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#Post#: 35970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: b789
Date: September 6, 2024, 7:25 pm
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It is all going to depend on how badly your daughter, or you,
feel aggrieved by the charge. Was it issued fairly?
Ask why the driver failed to notice the signs in the car park.
Why was the driver not aware that there was a £100 charge if
they breached the terms of parking?
Is the vehicle registered in your daughter’s name? If so, she
has received the Notice to Keeper (NtK). Under no circumstances
should the Keeper identify the driver. MET do not know the
identity of the driver, only that of the Keeper.
There is no legal obligation for the Keeper to identify the
driver. MET are not allowed to infer or presume that the Keeper
was also the driver and there is persuasive case law to back
that fact up.
Any burden of proof is on MET to prove the identity of the
driver. The only way they can know the identity of the driver is
if the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise.
The Keeper and the driver are separate legal entities. The only
way the MET can transfer liability for the charge from the
unknown driver (to them), to the Keeper is if MET have fully
complied with all the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms
Act 2012 (PoFA). They have not.
PoFA, Schedule 4, paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) requires that the NtK
“invites” the Keeper to pay the charge. In the NtK you have
shown us, there is no invitation nor any synonym of the word
that invited the Keeper to pay it. Partial or even substantial
compliance with PoFA is not sufficient.
So, why didn’t the driver notice the signs? Were they
conspicuous? Were the terms of parking prominently displayed?
Was the charge of £100 “adequately” brought to the attention of
the driver? Has MET fully complied with all the requirements of
PoFA to be able to hold the Keeper liable for the charge? Has
MET evidenced that the Keeper was the driver? Does MET have a
valid contract flowing from the landowner, through their agent,
McDonalds to issue PCNs in their own name?
These are all questions that should be answered if the Keeper
feels aggrieved and that the PCN has been issued unfairly. It
comes down to whether the Keeper would rather pay the “mugs
discount” and be done with it or whether they are prepared to
fight it.
Plan A is always try and get the landowner or their agent,
McDonalds in this case, to tell MET to cancel the PCN. This is
the easiest way to get it cancelled. Plan B would be to appeal
to MET but I can guarantee that MET will reject it, no matter
what is said in the appeal. No money in it for them.
By rejecting the appeal, MET will be obliged to provide a POPLA
code for the Plan C appeal. This is where there is a 45% chance
of being successful and the appeal would be in the points I
mentioned above. POPLA will not consider any mitigation, only
points of law or the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) to see whether
the PCN was issued correctly.
If the Plan C POPLA appeal is not successful, Plan D would be to
wait and see if/when MET decide to try and recover the alleged
debt through the county court. MET can be litigious but the
county court is the ultimate dispute resolution service. Only a
judge would decide whether a debt was owed or not.
The decision has to be made based on the original questions I
asked at the beginning of this post.
#Post#: 36006--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 7, 2024, 7:19 am
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?
'...as the registered keeper...you are now invited to either pay
or...'(Third para. in main body of NTK on page 1). So no mileage
with this defence, IMO.
OP, if you are the keeper then submit something. If it's
difficult to understand why signs weren't seen, then maybe they
weren't visible enough. You can say that you've spoken to the
driver who has no recollection of seeing the signs referred to
in the NTK and therefore you have reason to believe that
contrary to what might appear in their records the signs at this
site are not clearly visible during hours of darkness.
Wait for others.
#Post#: 36014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: b789
Date: September 7, 2024, 7:58 am
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I agree. I had not noticed the "invitation" for the keeper to
pay. The NtK is therefore PoFA compliant. However, any appeal
should still be made as the Keeper without identifying the
driver as there could be issues with the signage that negates
Keeper liability under PoFA, especially if the £100 charge was
not "adequately" brought to the attention of the driver.
If possible, take some photos of the signs and the general
layout of the car park, under similar lighting conditions. Do
not use flash or headlights to illuminate the signs. A close up
of the signs is useful for us to see if all the legal and BPA
CoP requirements for the signs have been adhered to.
#Post#: 36036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: maisiethecat
Date: September 7, 2024, 2:26 pm
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thanks all for replying, i did call mc donalds today, initially
the manager was saying just appeal, and i said under what
grounds, we are not denying my daughter spent nearly 2hours
with her friends at the restaurant but we weren't aware there
was any time limit on eating at the restaurant, she said let me
talk to someone, she came back on i gave her the reference and
she said we will sort it out our end and get it overturned. I
dont have anything in writing, should i message MET and advise
them this.
#Post#: 36046--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: September 7, 2024, 4:51 pm
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I would get something in writing from McDonald's ideally. We've
seen too many cases of promises being made on the phone, only
for them not to materialise.
It's not cancelled until it's cancelled.
#Post#: 36060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: slapdash
Date: September 8, 2024, 4:15 am
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On the possibly misguided assumption that the apparent offer has
been made in good faith it can be sensible to go through the
motions of payment. Some say not found, some zero due. Some
unchanged.
At least that enables verification of whether it has been
cancelled sooner.
#Post#: 36125--------------------------------------------------
Re: Daughter has received a parking charge for using mc donalds
car park.
DIR By: maisiethecat
Date: September 8, 2024, 3:00 pm
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--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> On the possibly misguided assumption that the apparent offer
has been made in good faith it can be sensible to go through the
motions of payment. Some say not found, some zero due. Some
unchanged.
>
> At least that enables verification of whether it has been
cancelled sooner.
>
--- End Quote ---
i logged onto the met payment system today to appeal, and it
shows the parking notice number not found, i tried the pay for
parking and again, said not found, i have screenshot and then
videoed me trying both options and then the response. Could
it be that quickly with mc donalds.
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