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#Post#: 34805--------------------------------------------------
Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: Rodi
Date: August 28, 2024, 6:08 am
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Hi,
I received 2 speeding tickets for a journey I made on Christmas
last year, I was on a motorway in which there was some
roadworks, and the speed limit was reduced to 40, I got caught
doing 50 both ways. It was stupid of me however it was past 12am
and the roads were empty, and I didn’t expect any cameras.
Once receiving those tickets, I panicked as I was already on 3
points and adding another 6 points would mean disgusting
insurance fees. Both my parents are unable to drive due to
health conditions so I’m the primary driver, taking them
wherever is needed, whether that be shopping or visiting family.
I am also the sole provider in my family at this moment, and my
car is important in me getting to and from work.
I heard through friends about people that could get that wiped
and I would never have to worry about this again, and in a state
of desperation, I got in contact with these people. They filled
out my Notice of Intended Prosecution and I thought all was
good.
Around March, I received another letter on the post, saying that
the address and name provided didn’t match and so I had to
resend the Notice of Intended Prosecution once more, so I
notified the people, and they did it again.
In July, I received a criminal conviction letter for not
providing the information of the driver. In the police report
within the letter, it stated that the address provided was known
as a ‘NIP Farm’. I was asked whether I wanted to plead guilty or
not and attend court if I chose the latter.
I plead guilty, paid a hefty fine and got my dreaded 6 points.
The reason for this post is, I also received a letter about
potentially being disqualified from driving. This terrified me,
and so I was also given the option of attending court and
pleading my case or not attending and leaving the decision up to
them. My decision was to attend and explain my situation.
My court date is set for September, and I wanted to know if
anyone has any idea what I should expect in court. I’m extremely
pessimistic about my chances of retaining my license however I
thought I’d ask the people who know a bit more about all this.
Thank you all!
#Post#: 34809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: August 28, 2024, 6:23 am
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--- Quote from: Rodi link ---
>
> Hi,
>
> I received 2 speeding tickets for a journey I made on
Christmas last year, I was on a motorway in which there was some
roadworks, and the speed limit was reduced to 40, I got caught
doing 50 both ways. It was stupid of me however it was past 12am
and the roads were empty, and I didn’t expect any cameras.
>
>
> Once receiving those tickets, I panicked as I was already on 3
points and adding another 6 points would mean disgusting
insurance fees. Both my parents are unable to drive due to
health conditions so I’m the primary driver, taking them
wherever is needed, whether that be shopping or visiting family.
I am also the sole provider in my family at this moment, and my
car is important in me getting to and from work.
>
>
> I heard through friends about people that could get that wiped
and I would never have to worry about this again, and in a state
of desperation, I got in contact with these people. They filled
out my Notice of Intended Prosecution and I thought all was
good.
>
>
> Around March, I received another letter on the post, saying
that the address and name provided didn’t match and so I had to
resend the Notice of Intended Prosecution once more, so I
notified the people, and they did it again.
>
>
> In July, I received a criminal conviction letter for not
providing the information of the driver. In the police report
within the letter, it stated that the address provided was known
as a ‘NIP Farm’. I was asked whether I wanted to plead guilty or
not and attend court if I chose the latter.
>
>
> I plead guilty, paid a hefty fine and got my dreaded 6 points.
>
>
> The reason for this post is, I also received a letter about
potentially being disqualified from driving. This terrified me,
and so I was also given the option of attending court and
pleading my case or not attending and leaving the decision up to
them. My decision was to attend and explain my situation.
> My court date is set for September, and I wanted to know if
anyone has any idea what I should expect in court. I’m extremely
pessimistic about my chances of retaining my license however I
thought I’d ask the people who know a bit more about all this.
> Thank you all!
>
--- End Quote ---
I’m just amazed you weren’t arrested for perverting the course
of justice.
Losing your job in and of itself won’t save your licence. The
court is looking at exceptional hardship, so you need to
emphasise what it is about losing your licence that would be
exceptional.
#Post#: 34813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 28, 2024, 6:38 am
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As SP has said, be grateful they aren't going with perverting
the course of justice, that would typically see a 12 month jail
term.
You say 6 points, but that they are considering a ban suggests
it was 2 x 6 points, 6 for each offence?
You can certainly try an exceptional hardship plea (but guidance
is that losing your job isn't to be considered exceptional as
that would be the impact on many), while the method of
accumulating the points shouldn't impact sentencing the bench
are human beings and if it's obvious it was an attempted 'wizard
wheeze' then it will hardly make them minded to be helpful.
As you have given us nothing to work from we have no idea if you
have the makings of an EH plea or not, note that impact to
others (such as you and a partner and kids losing a house and
being 'on the streets') will carry more weight that hardship to
the person who committed the offences.
#Post#: 34817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: August 28, 2024, 7:11 am
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As above, from your description of what you did, a driving
disqualification means you got off lightly.
I imagine you received six points for each offence of "failing
to provide driver's details" thus making you liable for a
"totting up" ban of a minimum of six months.
You can have this reduced (usually to zero) if you can convince
the court that you or others will suffer "exceptional hardship"
(EH) if you are banned. Here's the guidance that Magistrates use
when considering such an application:
"When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a
totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the
following:
It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof
that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this
will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence
is given, it must be sworn.
Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court
must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or
hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have
evidence.
Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person
disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the
deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the
preventative effect of the order not to drive.
If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the
risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can
take this circumstance into account.
Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of
exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives
(including alternative means of transport) for avoiding
exceptional hardship are not viable.
Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a
driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment
would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient
to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will
depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences
of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others."
I would imagine that even if your EH argument is accepted, with
two convictions for "failing to provide driver's details", motor
insurance will become extremely expensive for the next five
years. Just one offence of that nature often sees premiums
double in the first year. With two, I would not be surprised if
many insurers refused to quote you at all.
#Post#: 34818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: Rodi
Date: August 28, 2024, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: The Rookie link ---
>
> As SP has said, be grateful they aren't going with perverting
the course of justice, that would typically see a 12 month jail
term.
>
> You say 6 points, but that they are considering a ban suggests
it was 2 x 6 points, 6 for each offence?
>
> You can certainly try an exceptional hardship plea (but
guidance is that losing your job isn't to be considered
exceptional as that would be the impact on many), while the
method of accumulating the points shouldn't impact sentencing
the bench are human beings and if it's obvious it was an
attempted 'wizard wheeze' then it will hardly make them minded
to be helpful.
>
> As you have given us nothing to work from we have no idea if
you have the makings of an EH plea or not, note that impact to
others (such as you and a partner and kids losing a house and
being 'on the streets') will carry more weight that hardship to
the person who committed the offences.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've currently only received 6 additional points, and this was
double checked by checking the gov.uk website.
Should I be expecting to get an additional 6 points post court?
#Post#: 34819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 28, 2024, 7:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rodi link ---
>
> Should I be expecting to get an additional 6 points post
court?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, they either give you the points and then have a hearing on
the disqualification or they don't sentence to the 'last' points
until that hearing, it really makes no odds either way, but
different areas do it slightly differently.
#Post#: 34905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving Disqualification pending in England
DIR By: Freecall
Date: August 29, 2024, 2:34 am
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Just to add, if you do make an application for EH, do not even
think about not telling the full truth regarding your
circumstances when you are under cross-examination in the
witness box. CPS Counsel are very good at detecting such things
and the consequences for you in doing so don't bear thinking
about.
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