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#Post#: 2279--------------------------------------------------
01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 31, 2023, 4:49 pm
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I had received a PCN attached to my windscreen on date:
18/03/2023 with code 01: Parked on a restricted street during
prescribed hours.
This I appealed using the councils online portal within the
required period.
Following this I did not hear from them at all for another 3
months. When I did hear from them it was in the form of a Charge
Certificate that stated that the penalty had not been paid in
full and that the PCN had increased by 50%
I then called the Parking Services team to ask why they had
increased the charge since I had appealed the original PCN and
received no correspondence. The agent explained that a letter
was sent to the address provided at the time and as no payment
or further correspondence was received, the notice to owner was
issued followed by the charge certificate. The agent went on to
advise me to write in explaining that I had not received their
correspondence which I immediately did.
One month later I received a letter repeating that they had
written to me following my challenge but received no reply or
payment. The letter goes on to say my submission has been
received outside of the time to make an appeal as once the
charge certificate has been issued, you have no further right to
appeal. They go on to say they are prepared on this occasion to
re-offer the discount of £35 to be paid within 21 days of the
date of this letter.
Now I cannot understand how they can deny my right to appeal
given they acknowledge my initial challenge and now know that I
never received any further correspondence from them before the
Charge Certificate was sent.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 2282--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 31, 2023, 5:56 pm
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Well, it depends on your attitude to risk.
Normally we would advise you to wait for the final statutory
document in the process called the Order for Recovery. This
means the council have registered the debt at the Traffic
Enforcement Centre at Northampton. The OfR adds £9 onto the CC
amount, being the fee to register the debt. At this stage you
can submit a Witness Statement that you submitted reps but did
not receive a rejection of those reps. The matter reverts,
(AIUI), to the Notice to Owner stage. Unfortunately, the
discount option is lost, so if you don't win an adjudication,
you'd have to pay the full amount.
So you have a decision to make. You haven't told us the
details of your reps against the original PCN and the
circumstances that caused it to be served.
#Post#: 2429--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 2, 2023, 12:23 pm
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The photos show a commercial vehicle:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Gs0lH7W.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3vRVfz7.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/p6GcMqR.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/bpDXPQi.jpg
So, were you actually loading or unloading something?
If so, you have grounds to fight the PCN on its merits so there
would be no point in paying now.
#Post#: 2440--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: August 2, 2023, 1:35 pm
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Hi there,
Yes in deed it is a commercial vehicle and van was there to load
goods and tow away a catering trailer.
I had been swapping gas bottles at the nose of the trailer when
the pcn was attached, and as soon as I saw parking attendant I
asked why he had issued a ticket when I was a trader loading and
preparing to tow the trailer away.
He apologised saying he had not realised the van belong to a
trader and had not seen me before issuing the ticket. He went on
to say he would make note and advised me to contest the ticket.
Some further info that may or may not be useful here. There are
several traders who operate on the street with trailers, for the
purposes of loading/unloading and towing. We usually bring the
trailers on before 10am and remove them after 5pm. Never once
have I see any parking attendant issue a PCN to the other
traders when there vans are parked beside their trailers during
or in preparation for towing their trailers. The attendants just
walk by. I think what happened here was that the attendant was
new and may not have been aware of the street and how traders
load/unload and tow.
It typically takes us 15 - 20 minutes to load/unload and to tow.
It can take other traders 30min plus and isn't unusual for me to
see other traders vehicles for up to an hour.
#Post#: 2445--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: August 2, 2023, 2:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Well, it depends on your attitude to risk.
>
> Normally we would advise you to wait for the final statutory
document in the process called the Order for Recovery. This
means the council have registered the debt at the Traffic
Enforcement Centre at Northampton. The OfR adds £9 onto the CC
amount, being the fee to register the debt. At this stage you
can submit a Witness Statement that you submitted reps but did
not receive a rejection of those reps. The matter reverts,
(AIUI), to the Notice to Owner stage. Unfortunately, the
discount option is lost, so if you don't win an adjudication,
you'd have to pay the full amount.
>
> So you have a decision to make. You haven't told us the
details of your reps against the original PCN and the
circumstances that caused it to be served.
>
--- End Quote ---
Crazy that they can log a debt against someone like this, and
slap another £9 charge on top. My van was on site to load from
a catering trailer and to tow the trailer off-site.
#Post#: 2475--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 2, 2023, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well the debt is "logged" but this is easily undone by filing
form TE9 with the Traffic Enforcement Centre, and these debts
don't appear on your credit score so don't worry about that
either.
As long as you can supply evidence that you were loading I'd
expect them to cancel at the Notice to Owner stage, so I'd
definitely go for a re-set.
For now just wait, once the 14 day charge certificate period has
expired, check the amount due at least once a week on
HTML https://parking.reading.gov.uk/
HTML https://parking.reading.gov.uk/.
As soon as it goes up to £114
you can download form TE9
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094491/Parking_TE9.pdf<br
/>and fill it in (no need to print, just type it out on your
computer and save), remember you are not the "applicant", the
"applicant" is the council.
Once that's done you can email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the
PCN number in the subject line and both the Order for Recovery
and the Charge Certificate will be revoked.
The council will then re-issue the Notice to Owner, again don't
rely on the post just keep checking the council website. You'll
know the PCN is back at the Notice to Owner stage when the
outstanding charge changes to £70. At that point we will help
you draft a formal representation.
#Post#: 2478--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: August 2, 2023, 5:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Well the debt is "logged" but this is easily undone by filing
form TE9 with the Traffic Enforcement Centre, and these debts
don't appear on your credit score so don't worry about that
either.
>
> As long as you can supply evidence that you were loading I'd
expect them to cancel at the Notice to Owner stage, so I'd
definitely go for a re-set.
>
> For now just wait, once the 14 day charge certificate period
has expired, check the amount due at least once a week on
HTML https://parking.reading.gov.uk/
HTML https://parking.reading.gov.uk/.
As soon as it goes up to £114
you can download form TE9
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094491/Parking_TE9.pdf<br
/>and fill it in (no need to print, just type it out on your
computer and save), remember you are not the "applicant", the
"applicant" is the council.
>
> Once that's done you can email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with
the PCN number in the subject line and both the Order for
Recovery and the Charge Certificate will be revoked.
>
> The council will then re-issue the Notice to Owner, again
don't rely on the post just keep checking the council website.
You'll know the PCN is back at the Notice to Owner stage when
the outstanding charge changes to £70. At that point we will
help you draft a formal representation.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for this.
Would you know how one would prove loading in this sort of
scenario or what constitutes proof?
#Post#: 2482--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 2, 2023, 6:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DontStandForNonsense link ---
>
> Would you know how one would prove loading in this sort of
scenario or what constitutes proof?
>
--- End Quote ---
If it's your own business you'll have paperwork: receipts,
invoies, delivery notes or similar. Maybe orders from clients,
emails, text, whatsapp messages?
If you're working for an employer, they would have all of that.
If you regularly deliver to the same client, they might be
willing to give you a witness statement.
If you were delivering to a nearby shop, they might have you on
CCTV carrying the goods into the shop.
#Post#: 2493--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: August 2, 2023, 7:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> [quote author=DontStandForNonsense
link=topic=289.msg2478#msg2478 date=1691016079]
> Would you know how one would prove loading in this sort of
scenario or what constitutes proof?
>
--- End Quote ---
If it's your own business you'll have paperwork: receipts,
invoies, delivery notes or similar. Maybe orders from clients,
emails, text, whatsapp messages?
If you're working for an employer, they would have all of that.
If you regularly deliver to the same client, they might be
willing to give you a witness statement.
If you were delivering to a nearby shop, they might have you on
CCTV carrying the goods into the shop.
[/quote]
We tow the trailer to and from the location at the start of
every day
There are set-up tasks and closing tasks including the exchange
of goods between the trailer and van before the van is removed
Not sure how I would prove any of those activities as it isn't
like I would have any receipts or delivery notes :/
#Post#: 2496--------------------------------------------------
Re: 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
(Reading Broad Street)
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: August 3, 2023, 1:40 am
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--- Quote ---
> We tow the trailer to and from the location at the start of
every day
> There are set-up tasks and closing tasks including the
exchange of goods between the trailer and van before the van is
removed
> Not sure how I would prove any of those activities as it isn't
like I would have any receipts or delivery notes :/
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Some further info that may or may not be useful here. There
are several traders who operate on the street with trailers, for
the purposes of loading/unloading and towing. We usually bring
the trailers on before 10am and remove them after 5pm. Never
once have I see any parking attendant issue a PCN to the other
traders when there vans are parked beside their trailers during
or in preparation for towing their trailers. The attendants just
walk by. I think what happened here was that the attendant was
new and may not have been aware of the street and how traders
load/unload and tow.
--- End Quote ---
Would not some of your fellow-traders be prepared to sign
statements to the effect that this practice has been the norm
for x years?
Suggest you put a draft statement here for comment if they are
happy to sign something - it potentially affects them, too.
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