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#Post#: 34011--------------------------------------------------
VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3 x
CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: benb76
Date: August 21, 2024, 5:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Whilst waiting to collect their daughter from Bristol airport in
the middle of the night last month, the driver stopped in three
places within 13 minutes (02:23, 02:31 & 02:36) and has received
a charge notice for each of these times, for £100 each. I, the
registered keeper, have returned from a recent holiday, to
receive these three charge notices. Any advice would be
gratefully appreciated, I have read many of the threads on the
forum, today is the last day on which £60 will be accepted for
each CN, which I do not intend to do. I have not responded to
VCS yet. Many thanks in advance for any help offered. The date
of event was 31/07/24 and the issue date of each CN was
07/08/24.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/take-two-cn-xHcJND9
#Post#: 34040--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: b789
Date: August 21, 2024, 8:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ah, “mugs” discount. Good job you didn’t fall for that one.
Never identify the driver. Only the driver can be liable and VCS
have no idea who that is unless the keeper tells them.
Appeal with the following for each PCN, verbatim:
--- Quote ---
> I am the registered keeper. VCS cannot hold a registered
keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is
under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, VCS will
be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because
BRISTOL Airport is not 'relevant land'.
>
> If Bristol Airports landowners wanted to hold owners or
keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the
landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only
is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because VCS
is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and
never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for VCS’s own
profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public
purse) and VCS has relied on contract law allegations of breach
against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable.
So you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and
cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 34045--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: benb76
Date: August 21, 2024, 8:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for the advice, I will do that.
#Post#: 34051--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 21, 2024, 9:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
For clarity, you'll need to submit a separate appeal for each.
VCS can be a stubborn bunch, so you may be in it for the long
haul.
#Post#: 39172--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: benb76
Date: October 2, 2024, 8:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I received a reply from VCS, see below; is anyone able to advise
how to respond please or whether I should just ignore it at this
stage? For clarity, I responded initially via email verbatim as
per the previously advised wording from Hero Member. Many thanks
in advance.
We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the
above numbered Charge Notice.
Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the
driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was
observed. However, it appears from what you have stated in your
appeal that you were not the driver on the date in question.
You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection
Of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 on the Notice issued to you; however
we have not cited POFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for
the Charge as the vehicle keeper.
It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue
this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the
driver of the vehicle on the date in question until
information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow
the instructions below:
1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to
appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename
and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE HOME ADDRESS within 14
days.
2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and
dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that
you are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be
an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The
statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and
Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE HOME ADDRESS.
Please ensure that correspondence is submitted through the
portal www.myparkingcharge.co.uk in order to correctly adhere
with the appeals process.
OR
3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at
www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now",
or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 and using a valid
Credit or Debit Card to make payment. It is your
responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our
office by the date specified.
As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for
an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above
actions to be complied with.
We are willing to re-offer you the original discounted charge of
£60 as full and final settlement of this Notice, if payment is
received within our office on or before the 24/09/2024.
If payment is not received by this date, the amount payable will
revert to £100, payable by 08/10/2024. Failure to pay this
charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery
action been taken and further costs up to an additional £70.00
been incurred.
#Post#: 39182--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: b789
Date: October 2, 2024, 9:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Respond with the following:
--- Quote ---
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> Your latest response does little more than confirm your
ongoing reliance on the absurd "assumption" that I, as the
registered keeper, was the driver. I’m not sure whether to be
astonished or amused by this continued strategy, especially
considering your firm’s humiliating thrashing in VCS v Edward
(2023) [H0KF6C9C] — a claim which has now become persuasive case
law. It seems VCS has learned nothing from that ruling, which
confirmed that assumptions, without evidence, are worthless in
court.
>
> Let me make this clear: it is not my responsibility to
disprove your assumptions. The burden of proof is entirely on
VCS to provide evidence that I was the driver. As it stands, you
have none. If VCS are so confident in their flawed assumption, I
invite VCS to put their money where their mouth is and take this
to court. It will be interesting to see how far this ridiculous
argument gets you — particularly when your own firm’s failed
appeal serves as a warning of what happens when you pursue
spurious claims based on assumptions.
>
> If you do not cancel this PCN, I am more than prepared to see
it through to the inevitable conclusion. It would be an amusing
exercise to watch this baseless claim fall apart under scrutiny.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Your Name]
> Registered Keeper
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 39188--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: benb76
Date: October 2, 2024, 9:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much, much appreciated.
#Post#: 39956--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: benb76
Date: October 9, 2024, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good morning,
Thank you for your advice to date. I have today received the
below email from VCS in respect of the CNs, further to the
response which I emailed to them, following your advice above on
2nd October. Am I right in thinking that there is no point in
appealing to IAS (as per the option below) as from what I have
read, this will not be successful? Is it worth responding to
them further at this point or waiting to see if they issue debt
recovery action, as per the below threat?
Many thanks
-----------------------------
Dear Mr x,
Re: Parking Charge Notice Number x - Vehicle: x
Site: Bristol Airport Post Code: BS48 3DY
Contravention Date: x
We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice
(CN) received on x.
Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our
records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our main reason(s)
for this decision are as follows:
The signs at the entrance to Bristol Airport and the access
roads within, clearly state "No Stopping", giving clear notice
that the land is private property and that a Charge of £100 will
be levied if vehicles do stop. The above detailed vehicle
stopped in a zone where stopping is prohibited and the driver
became liable to pay that Charge.
In your appeal you state you were not the driver when your
vehicle was seen to be stopped on the access road.
You state that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection
Of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 on the Notice issued to you; however
we have not cited POFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for
the Charge as the vehicle keeper.
It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue
this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the
driver of the vehicle on the date in question until
information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
A review of our CCTV evidence has confirmed that on the date in
question, your vehicle stopped for an unreasonable amount of
time on the access road where restrictions apply.
We note your comment concerning the use of byelaws at the
Airport; as already stated the signs at the entrance to the
airport clearly identify the roads as private property and
byelaws are not currently in use.
As members of the International Parking Community's (IPC)
Accredited Operator Scheme, it is necessary for us to evidence
to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake parking
management at the site concerned and that our signs at that
location are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and
conditions of use. We will only answer pertinent points at this
stage.
There are over 80 high profile signs advising drivers not to
stop and warning that if a driver does stop, a charge of £100 is
payable. The signs exceed recognised industry standards, with
some as large as 2m by 1.1m (6ft 6in by 3ft 7in) which clearly
state "No Stopping" alongside the nationally recognised Highway
Code symbol for a Clearway (No Stopping). Furthermore, the
signage on the approach road is reflective and positioned to
face oncoming vehicles and the text size used is relative to the
average approach speed of a vehicle in relation to the speed
limit in force at that location.
We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the
Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to accept the
mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your
appeal is therefore rejected and the Charge will stand;
photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at
www.myparkingcharge.co.uk.
What you should do next - Either:
1. Pay the Charge Notice (CN): In order to settle the Charge,
the payment of £60 to reach us by 23/10/2024 or £100 to reach us
by 06/11/2024 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within
the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken
and further costs up to an additional £70 being incurred.
Payments can be made
online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for
"Pay Now", or over the phone by calling
0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card.
OR:
2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS): If you
believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal
to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following
information (which is also contained in the subject header of
this correspondence).
Notice Serial No: x Vehicle Registration Mark: x
Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 28 days of the date
of this correspondence. Please visit www.theias.org
for full details on how to submit an appeal online.
It is important you note that if you do make an appeal to the
IAS, the reduced charge offered above will no longer
apply. You should also be aware that if a payment is made prior
to an appeal being made to, or adjudicated by, the
IAS AND this is accepted as Full and Final settlement against
the CN, the appeal will automatically be dismissed and
the matter will be deemed closed. Should you appeal to the IAS
and it is unsuccessful, the full amount outstanding
(£100.00) will become payable within 14 days of the date the IAS
decision is notified to you. Failure to pay this sum
in the 14 day period will result in debt recovery costs of up to
£70.00 being added to the outstanding balance.
It is important we also highlight that no further appeals will
be accepted at this office; any such appeal must be
made to the IAS.
Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be
necessary for us to subsequently recover any
outstanding charge using further debt recovery and/or court
action.
Yours sincerely
Appeals Administration Team
CENTRAL PROCESSING OFFICE
#Post#: 39966--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: b789
Date: October 9, 2024, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's all template, 'male bovine excrement' that they pump out.
As you can see from this simple bit in that pile of poo:
--- Quote ---
> It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue
this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the
driver of the vehicle on the date in question until
information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
--- End Quote ---
So, they have failed to respond to the fact that "assumption",
irrespective of whether it is "reasonable" or not, has no basis
when it comes to Keeper liability and PoFA.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with IAS. However, others
will disagree and it is up to you whether you have the energy
and willpower to deal with the kangaroo court. If you do, show
us what you propose sending before you submit anything.
Assuming you either don't bother with IAS or you do and it is
unsuccessful, you would then have to ignore any and all Debt
Recovery Agents (DRA) letters that follow. We are not interested
in those. They are powerless to do anything and are a waste of
time. Never, ever, ever communicate with the DRAs. You can
safely ignore them and use their correspondence as lining for
the bottom of a cat litter tray for what they're worth.
What you are waiting for is if/when a Letter of Claim (LoC) is
issued. If/when you do receive one, then come back and show us
and we will give you the correct response.
Eventually, an N1SDT Claim form will arrive from the CNBC. Again
show us and we will provide the defence. These claims are easy
to defend and almost never go all the way to a hearing as most
are either discontinued or struck out at allocation stage. In
the worst possible case scenario where it ever went all the way
to a hearing and you were one of the one percenters who were
unsuccessful, there is no danger of a CCJ on your record.
Over 99% of these claims are discontinued, struck-out or won.
#Post#: 39968--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS CN - Stopping in a prohibited zone - Bristol airport - 3
x CNs in 13 minutes
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 9, 2024, 6:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The (very ;D ) few times I have seen successful IAS appeals,
they have been on slam-dunk PoFA points like this, so might be
worth a punt if the OP fancies it.
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