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#Post#: 33942--------------------------------------------------
Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 20, 2024, 1:48 pm
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It is quite startling to receive correspondence from a bailiff
company concerning an infringement dated 3 November 2021,
especially when the Warrant of Control was not issued until 23
January 2024 – a staggering gap of over two years.
Could someone shed light on whether there is a statutory time
limit for a council to apply for a warrant following an
infringement?
While it is clear that there is a six-month limit for
prosecuting non-indictable offences, it is crucial to understand
that traffic contraventions do not adhere to this general rule
due to their distinct legal classification and procedural
requirements.
#Post#: 33955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 20, 2024, 3:41 pm
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No there isn't.
Too many different Acts and acts to give a one-off answer.
Details would help.
#Post#: 33970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 20, 2024, 4:46 pm
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The details are as follows:
Contravention Date: 3 November 2021
Applicant: City of London
Amount: £204
Warrant Issued by TEC: 22 January 2024
Warrant Issued to Enforcement Agent: 23 January 2024
The timeline here raises some questions. It seems unlikely that
the TEC would know precisely when the applicant would instruct
an enforcement agent at the time it authorised the Warrant. This
discrepancy suggests a need for coherence between the dates
provided.
The Warrant of Control lists my current address, which is
puzzling because I did not reside there on 23 January 2024, the
date the TEC issued it. At that time, the property was under
renovation.
The contravention involves a bus lane on Princes Street. I
suspect this occurred when my daughter attended a doctor's
appointment, leaving little room for a viable defence on my
part.
Unfortunately, I have no record of the original PCN and have yet
to receive any documentation from the City of London, possibly
due to my work commitments in Singapore.
The enforcement agent involved is CDER Group Limited. Their
correspondence does not resemble a formal Notice of Enforcement;
rather, it is an attempt to elicit a response, perhaps even a
phishing attempt. I requested that they email me the Warrant,
and the attached document is what I received.
To progress this matter, can anyone confirm whether the City of
London remains within the time limit to issue a Warrant of
Control for a contravention dated 3 November 2021?
(I Couldn't upload documents - got a folder-full error.)
#Post#: 33995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: August 21, 2024, 2:36 am
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--- Quote ---
> (I Couldn't upload documents - got a folder-full error.)
--- End Quote ---
see
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
for guidance
#Post#: 34002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 21, 2024, 4:05 am
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OP, may I suggest that this thread is broadened, after all if
what is being sought is to not have to pay the PCN/surcharged
penalty/bailiffs' fees then we should look at all angles.
#Post#: 34038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 21, 2024, 7:54 am
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I suggest that the probaility is that warrant has been re-issued
(re-sealed) at least once. Possibly more than once.
If the enforcement agent (baillif) traced you to an address
other than the RK address originally supplied by the DVLA then
the Council should have applied for the warrant to be re-sealed.
I believe the Enforcement Authority can try and collect the
penalty charge for six years. However a warrant is only vailid
for 12 months unless it is re-sealed. Somebody else can maybe
confirm if that is correct?
I suggest that you ring the TEC and find out when the warrant
was first issued and the address used. And when it was
re-issued, if it was re-issued, and the address(es) used.
Have you had a Notice of Enforcement from the bailiff? If so,
please post up a copy. Just redact your name & address.
#Post#: 34042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 21, 2024, 8:21 am
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Hi Enceladus, Thank you for your prompt and thoughtful response
to my enquiry.
I contacted the TEC call centre, and while the agent confirmed
that the warrant's issue date was 23 January 2024, they were
unable to clarify whether it was a re-issued warrant or the
original.
Moreover, the agent could not provide my address on record at
the time of the contravention, which strongly suggests that this
Warrant of Control is the first one issued for this particular
infringement.
In a related discussion, HC Anderson provided a link indicating
that a Notice of Enforcement (NOE) is valid for 12 months from
the date of issue. However, the letter from CDER Group is not a
Notice of Enforcement; CDER’s letter had all the charm of a
cookie-cutter threat—basically, "We’re on a mission to track
down your car and slap a clamp on it." It was like they were
writing from a script, missing only the dramatic music in the
background!
Upon further examination of Part 75 of the Civil Procedure
Rules, it is clear that the 12-month enforcement limit for
warrants was removed from Rule 75.7(10) in 2014, with the
enforcement time limit now instead applying to the NOE.
Typically, an NOE provides clarity on when enforcement authority
begins, yet in this instance, there is no clear indication of
when this enforcement authority will expire.
Therefore, my query concerns whether the City of London must
comply with a deadline for applying for a Warrant of Control
after the date of the contravention.
Observing other cases, the usual timeframe between the
infringement and the issuance of the warrant is around 4 to 5
months. In contrast, in my situation, more than two years have
elapsed.
CDER Group Limited’s call centre agent was a real
detective—except they couldn’t even get my address right! Yet,
there they were, grilling me like I was hiding state secrets,
all while chanting "Data Protection Act" like it was some sort
of holy scripture.
#Post#: 34055--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 21, 2024, 10:39 am
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Moreover, the [TEC] agent could not provide my address on record
at the time of the contravention, which strongly suggests that
this Warrant of Control is the first one issued for this
particular infringement.
IMO, you cannot draw this inference, nor should TEC attempt to
deduce the 'address on record at the time of the contravention'.
TEC would use the address provided by the council. There is no
reason for them to look behind details in such a request if
properly made. For all they know or care the person named in the
warrant could have moved a dozen times since DVLA details were
first sought by the council and updated the council
correspondingly.
If the person concerned has legitimate concerns then they have
the Out of Time route available to them.
All we have so far as concrete evidence is the date of issue of
the warrant; you were named; you have not received a NoE but
instead received a letter from CDER, which suggests they know
your address for service. IMO, such communication is improper.
If they have been instructed by the council to enforce a warrant
then they should issue a NoE at the earliest opportunity.
Unless you are served* with a NoE then your goods, including any
car, are not at risk.
*- including all the alternatives to a residential address,
which includes addressing to a premises where the named person
carries on a business etc.
#Post#: 34059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 21, 2024, 11:32 am
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Following a review of the circumstances, I can confidently
confirm that the City of London has acted within the timeframe
permitted by the Limitation Act in issuing the Warrant. As a
result, I have no viable defence.
I just rang up the City of London to settle the debt, but their
response was so bizarre it could’ve been an episode of The
Twilight Zone. They flat-out refused the money and told me the
Warrant of Control address was given by the DVLA as if I’d tried
to pay my council tax at the local chippy!
I’ve never registered a car at the Warrant address—heck, I’ve
never registered any car there. The only thing I might’ve parked
at that place is my sense of direction!
I noticed that you referred to a Notice of Enforcement (NOE)
needing to be served. However, the wording in the information
you shared previously suggests that the NOE is given to the
debtor. Please clarify whether the NOE is served or simply
given.
Additionally, Enceladus, you mentioned that the Warrant is
re-sealed, yet the document from CDER Group Limited appears to
lack any seal. Please clarify whether the Warrant is required to
be issued or sealed.
Moving forward, I’ll wait for the City of London to take the
next step.
I’m not exactly tossing and turning over the enforcement; my
house on the Warrant isn’t exactly the kind of place where a
gang of shiny-headed, muscle-bound bailiffs can just rock up to
and start clamping cars.
#Post#: 34070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bailiffs: What is the Time Limit for a Council to Issue a
Warrant of Control After a contravention?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 21, 2024, 12:57 pm
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I don't think there is any distinction in law or practice.
I refer to this:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/part/2/crossheading/notice-of-enforcement-prior-to-taking-control-of-goods
Reg.8 sets out how notices are to be given, and this includes by
post and by hand. I infer that the Interpretation Act would
apply as regards presumption of service.
But you don't have a NoE, so IMO the enforcement agents'
compliance with the regulations is not at issue, yet.
If you are going to pay then this would not include the
additional £75.
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