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#Post#: 2252--------------------------------------------------
Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case disap
DIR By: JackFB
Date: July 31, 2023, 8:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Guys
The local council here in Brighton seemed to have jumped to a
Charge Certificate without responding to my posted
representations.
I'd already made one in response to the original PCN online but
that too seems to have disappeared from the page and offers me
only the option to pay the upgraded fine.
PCN: BH10240956
The NtO was issued and 'posted' on 12/5/23 and arrived with me
on 16/5/23.
I've copied in my response to the NtO which I sent on the
8/6/23, below.
I'm wondering if my reps have been disregarded.
There is no phone number to see what's happened.
Kind regards
FBJ
Response to NtO
FAO: Brighton and Hove City Council
PO Box 204
Sheffield, S98 1LS
Re: Response to NtO and representations against Penalty Charge
Notice [PCN] – Reference: BH10240956, Registration: EN52 FMG
Dear Sir/Madam,
I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to formally
challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued to me on
11/3/2023 for an alleged parking violation. I would like to
bring the following points to your attention:
Delayed Arrival of the Notice to Owner (NtO):
I must highlight that the NtO arrived at my address on the 16th
of May, rather than the stated date of posting being the 12th of
May. I kindly request that Brighton and Hove City Council
(B&HCC) considers this discrepancy and takes into account any
potential postal issues that may have occurred. Moreover, it is
worth noting that these representations are being posted to you
on the 9th of June, which falls within the statutory time-frame
of 28 days, being 19 working days after the 12th of June, and 15
working days after the NtO arrived on the 16th of May.
Inability to Complete Online Form:
I regret to inform you that I was unable to submit the form
online as your system appears to be preventing me from entering
my correct address details, specifically, Flat 3, 16 Lower Rock
Gardens, BN2 1PG (date attempted: 8/6/2023). I would appreciate
clarification on why this issue has arisen, as I had previously
been able to provide accurate information using your online
platform at
HTML https://brighton-hove.tarantoportal.com/PCNs.
Challenge Regarding the Incident:
I hereby challenge the occurrence of the alleged parking
violation as stated in the PCN. During the time in question, I
was actively engaged in assisting with a local games tournament
known as "Toad in the Hole," where I was responsible for
delivering heavy lead tops for the tables on behalf of a friend.
I would like to emphasize that these events are organized
largely on a not-for-profit basis by the players and has a
significant role in generating interest in Brighton through the
promotion of an old Sussex game.
Regarding loading and unloading rights, according to the
relevant UK legislation, specifically the Traffic Signs
Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016, loading and
unloading is permitted on single yellow lines, provided certain
conditions are met. It is my understanding that drivers are
allowed a reasonable period of up to 40 minutes for loading and
unloading, and there was nothing in the signage to indicate I
couldn’t use the space to unload or load. One would expect a ‘No
Loading at any time sign’ for example.
Additionally, as this was a Saturday, it is important to note
that loading and unloading rights are not typically suspended on
weekends, unless explicitly stated. Therefore, I assert my right
to utilize the 40-minute loading and unloading period on this
occasion.
Excessive and Incorrect Charge:
I dispute the charge imposed, as it appears to be both excessive
and inaccurate. According to my understanding of the relevant
legislation, the warden was present for only five minutes,
whereas I believe the law allows for a 40-minute loading period
on single yellow lines. Additionally, there is no record of my
arrival or departure, nor any documented discussion between the
warden and myself to verify the alleged violation.
Therefore I respectfully dispute the parking attendant's claim
that I exceeded the permitted time limit by parking for more
than five minutes. It is worth noting that the attendant did not
witness my arrival or departure, nor was there any documented
discussion between us. Consequently, their observation fails to
provide conclusive evidence regarding the duration of my
presence at the location.
Photographic Evidence:
I have taken the liberty of capturing photographs which
demonstrate that the PCN in question was open and wet from the
rain. This raises concerns regarding its authenticity and, at
the very least, casts reasonable doubt on the overall accuracy
of the fine. I believe this circumstance highlights a casual and
inattentive approach towards the residents and car owners of
Brighton.
Knowledge of Loading Rights and Supporting Contact Information:
I wish to highlight that I am aware of my rights regarding
loading on single yellow lines for a maximum duration of 40
minutes. In support of my claim, I have already provided contact
details for the craftsman whom I assisted during the time of the
alleged violation. It is my understanding that this information
should provide sufficient evidence to warrant some leniency in
this particular case.
I trust that the Brighton and Hove City Council will thoroughly
investigate and consider the issues I have raised. Furthermore,
I kindly request a detailed response addressing each of the
aforementioned points within a reasonable timeframe.
Should you require any further information or documentation,
please do not hesitate to contact me at the address provided
above or via email at jonnywills@hotmail.com.
Best regards
J
#Post#: 2255--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: guest179
Date: July 31, 2023, 9:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I've copied in my response to the NtO which I sent on the
8/6/23, below.
How was this sent?
#Post#: 2416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 2, 2023, 11:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Much of what you wrote is misguided, but the key point that you
are entitled to load and unload is correct.
What isn't clear is what evidence you supplied to substantiate
your assertion that you were loading (you can't just say you
were loading or else we could all park wherever we want and just
say we were loading), but presumably you could gather evidence
to confirm what you were unloading (photos of the lead tops, any
emails / text messages / whatsapp messages about the event and
so on. In due course a statement from your friend would be
helpful.
Your reps have not been ignored or disregarded, rather it seems
a Notice of Rejection was sent and never delivered (and the
council cannot be responsible for lost post):
HTML https://i.imgur.com/B8gDB5D.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3qwcEL6.png
However right now you need to deal with the charge certificate,
which is dealt with by ignoring it. The next document in the
chain is the Order for Recovery, which you then challenge by
making a witness statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre,
the full process is explained here:
HTML https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/charge-certificates-and-orders-for-recovery/
The statutory ground that applies to you is "Representations
were made to the local authority or charging authority within 28
days of the NtO / PCN being received, but no Notice of Rejection
(NoR) of Representations was received".
However you don't want to risk the Order for Recovery going
missing in the post as well, so you need to keep an eye on the
amount due on
HTML https://brighton-hove.tarantoportal.com/PCNs
Once the 14 day charge certificate period has expired, check the
amount due at least once a week. As soon as it goes up to £114
or the status changes from "CC Sent" to "OFR Sent", you can
download form TE9
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094491/Parking_TE9.pdf<br
/>and fill it in (no need to print, just type it out on your
computer and save), remember you are not the "applicant", the
"applicant" is the council.
Once that's done you can email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the
PCN number in the subject line and both the Order for Recovery
and the Charge Certificate will be revoked.
The council will then refer the case to the Traffic Penalty
Tribunal for the appeal to be decided on its merits.
If anything isn't clear please ask, and also please confirm what
evidence you can gather to corroborate your claim that you were
loading.
Also please post all sides of the PCN and the Notice to Owner.
#Post#: 21743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: JackFB
Date: May 7, 2024, 8:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I've got an update on this PCN and frankly I'm a bit confused.
I've attached the history of it from BH Parking site in
screengrabs.
I've re-read this thread and come to it after they have taken a
long time to process this. I wonder where I stand.
I responded that there was no Charge Certificate - and their
logging of it was a surprise.
But of course this is not how i can respond and have had my TE9
returned.
Having read this thread I will reply having ticked the 'not
receive a rejection notice' within 28 days.
I am also wondering when I can send a statement from my friend I
was helping with the tables. Should I send it back with the
amended TE9?
Thank you for your assistance,
Kind regards
Jonny
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 21745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 7, 2024, 8:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
YOu'd better let us see what you put on the TE9.
#Post#: 21751--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: JackFB
Date: May 7, 2024, 10:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you
Here's their reply, as I didn't tick a box - I just responded
with a witness statement and added I didn't receive the Charge
Certificate, because I only saw it for the first time when
notified about the last update on the BH website.
I have ticked the box now having revisited this thread... but
obviously haven't sent it.
Here's a copy of the statement as I thought this was what I was
supposed to reply with. I point out the fact I didn't receive a
Charge Certificate. I was unclear about the process and whether
I was supposed to get one. I tried to phone BH Parking Services
but it's a stonewall of convoluted telephone machines.
I couldn't get through to BH Parking Services. There does seem a
long time between processes here.
Anyway: here is the statement:
To: Traffic Enforcements Centre
County Court Business Centre
St Katherine’s House
21-27 St Katherine’s Street
Northampton
NN1 2LH
24th April 2024
Witness Statement in response to Order for Recovery
Regarding Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) BH10240956
Date: 11/03/2023
Time: 16:29
Registration: EN52FMG
I am writing this witness statement in response to the order for
recovery of an unpaid penalty charge issued to me. Upon
receiving the order, I reviewed the PCN history at the provided
website link
(
HTML https://brighton-hove.tarantoportal.com/PCNs/PCN/KeyEvents)
and
was surprised to find that a Charge Certificate was issued on
18/07/2023 at 07:21, as I have no record of receiving this
certificate either via email or by post.
I must clarify that currently I am suffering from Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) and experience episodes of brain fog,
which affects my memory and cognitive functions - this can be
verified with Dr Burgess at Pavilion Surgery,2-3 Old Steine,
Kemptown, Brighton and Hove, Brighton BN1 1EJ. One of the
reasons I am challenging this is because this PCN seems
inordinately harsh and since losing my job, I am having trouble
with money.
Despite my condition, I diligently searched through my emails,
including deleted items and spam folders, but found no trace of
the Charge Certificate for the aforementioned date.
I was told at the Notice of Rejection on June 6 2023 that ‘If,
after 28 days, you take no action, we may send you a Charge
Certificate increasing the £70.00 charge by 50%. You will then
have 14 days to pay this increased charge. If after 14 days this
charge has not been paid, we may apply to the County Court to
recover the money, plus court costs, from you.’
I reiterate that I received no such Charge Certificate so was
unaware this process was activated. I had I done I would have
taken steps to address the matter.
Additionally, I find it concerning that there is a nine-month
gap between the issuance of the Charge Certificate, which I did
not receive, and the unexpected Order for Recovery. I seek
clarification if such a lengthy delay is standard procedure.
As Form TE3 advised I phoned the Brighton Parking dept and was
met with a series of automated messages saying that they weren’t
legally permitted to share information about my own PCN and
appeal.
I kindly request guidance on the necessary steps to address this
matter further.
Additional supporting points that may be relevant, please ignore
if they have already been dealt with:
I also provided valid grounds for why my vehicle was parked on
Church Street at the time of the PCN issuance, if permitted I
politely ask for them to be taken under consideration.
Firstly, I stated that I was loading leads for the Toads games
at a nearby pub. Despite the Civil Enforcement Officer's
assertion of not witnessing this activity, I reiterate that the
absence of evidence does not negate the occurrence of the event.
I provided contact details of the pub and the individual I was
assisting to support my claim.
Secondly, I questioned the allowance of 40 minutes for loading
and unloading activities. While Brighton Parking indicated that
there is no provision for a specific time-frame, I argue that
the nature of the items being unloaded, namely Toads tables,
which are heavy and cumbersome, and the lack of immediate
parking availability directly outside the pub, should be
considered.
Thirdly, I inquired about the possibility of photographic
evidence of my vehicle at the location after the specified
times. While I understand that there is no legal requirement for
Civil Enforcement Officers to take photographs, I believe such
evidence could substantiate my claims. Although the CEO said
there is no legal duty to do so, it stands to reason that had
the vehicle not been there, this would have been observed.
Fourthly, I stated that I didn't register the sign because I
assumed, like most of the UK, parking on yellow lines is
permitted at the weekend. It is well known wardens usually give
a grace period of ten minutes for parking.
Fifthly, I noted that the PCN was open and wet when I arrived at
the car and asked if a ticket in this state is valid or if it
may have been tampered with. This calls into question the
propriety of its issue.
Sixthly, I raised the issue of receiving the response as a PDF
in my junk mail. I assumed that the correct issue is when I
receive the response, not when it's created in an office, as we
have no record of its arrival.
Lastly, I asked about responding with evidence and the lack of a
deadline date provided in the PDF. I believe this is a fair
question given my unawareness of any wrongdoing and the
expectation of being able to discuss any issues with a warden.
In conclusion, I respectfully request a review of the
circumstances surrounding the issuance of PCN BH10240956. I am
willing to provide any additional evidence or information
required to support my case and seek a fair resolution to this
matter.
Yours sincerely,
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 21754--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: Neil B
Date: May 7, 2024, 11:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JackFB link ---
>
>
> Here's a copy of the statement as I thought this was what I
was supposed to reply with. I point out the fact I didn't
receive a Charge Certificate. I was unclear about the process
and whether I was supposed to get one. I tried to phone BH
Parking Services but it's a stonewall of convoluted telephone
machines.
>
> I couldn't get through to BH Parking Services. There does seem
a long time between processes here.
>
> Anyway: here is the statement:
>
> To: Traffic Enforcements Centre
> County Court Business Centre
> St Katherine’s House
> 21-27 St Katherine’s Street
> Northampton
> NN1 2LH
>
> 24th April 2024
>
> Witness Statement in response to Order for Recovery
>
> Regarding Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) BH10240956
>
> Date: 11/03/2023
> Time: 16:29
> Registration: EN52FMG
>
> I am writing this witness statement in response to the order
for recovery of an unpaid penalty charge issued to me. Upon
receiving the order, I reviewed the PCN history at the provided
website link
(
HTML https://brighton-hove.tarantoportal.com/PCNs/PCN/KeyEvents)
and
was surprised to find that a Charge Certificate was issued on
18/07/2023 at 07:21, as I have no record of receiving this
certificate either via email or by post.
>
> I must clarify that currently I am suffering from Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) and experience episodes of brain fog,
which affects my memory and cognitive functions - this can be
verified with Dr Burgess at Pavilion Surgery,2-3 Old Steine,
Kemptown, Brighton and Hove, Brighton BN1 1EJ. One of the
reasons I am challenging this is because this PCN seems
inordinately harsh and since losing my job, I am having trouble
with money.
>
> Despite my condition, I diligently searched through my emails,
including deleted items and spam folders, but found no trace of
the Charge Certificate for the aforementioned date.
>
> I was told at the Notice of Rejection on June 6 2023 that ‘If,
after 28 days, you take no action, we may send you a Charge
Certificate increasing the £70.00 charge by 50%. You will then
have 14 days to pay this increased charge. If after 14 days this
charge has not been paid, we may apply to the County Court to
recover the money, plus court costs, from you.’
>
> I reiterate that I received no such Charge Certificate so was
unaware this process was activated. I had I done I would have
taken steps to address the matter.
>
> Additionally, I find it concerning that there is a nine-month
gap between the issuance of the Charge Certificate, which I did
not receive, and the unexpected Order for Recovery. I seek
clarification if such a lengthy delay is standard procedure.
>
> As Form TE3 advised I phoned the Brighton Parking dept and was
met with a series of automated messages saying that they weren’t
legally permitted to share information about my own PCN and
appeal.
>
> I kindly request guidance on the necessary steps to address
this matter further.
>
> Additional supporting points that may be relevant, please
ignore if they have already been dealt with:
>
> I also provided valid grounds for why my vehicle was parked on
Church Street at the time of the PCN issuance, if permitted I
politely ask for them to be taken under consideration.
>
> Firstly, I stated that I was loading leads for the Toads games
at a nearby pub. Despite the Civil Enforcement Officer's
assertion of not witnessing this activity, I reiterate that the
absence of evidence does not negate the occurrence of the event.
I provided contact details of the pub and the individual I was
assisting to support my claim.
>
> Secondly, I questioned the allowance of 40 minutes for loading
and unloading activities. While Brighton Parking indicated that
there is no provision for a specific time-frame, I argue that
the nature of the items being unloaded, namely Toads tables,
which are heavy and cumbersome, and the lack of immediate
parking availability directly outside the pub, should be
considered.
>
> Thirdly, I inquired about the possibility of photographic
evidence of my vehicle at the location after the specified
times. While I understand that there is no legal requirement for
Civil Enforcement Officers to take photographs, I believe such
evidence could substantiate my claims. Although the CEO said
there is no legal duty to do so, it stands to reason that had
the vehicle not been there, this would have been observed.
>
> Fourthly, I stated that I didn't register the sign because I
assumed, like most of the UK, parking on yellow lines is
permitted at the weekend. It is well known wardens usually give
a grace period of ten minutes for parking.
>
> Fifthly, I noted that the PCN was open and wet when I arrived
at the car and asked if a ticket in this state is valid or if it
may have been tampered with. This calls into question the
propriety of its issue.
>
> Sixthly, I raised the issue of receiving the response as a PDF
in my junk mail. I assumed that the correct issue is when I
receive the response, not when it's created in an office, as we
have no record of its arrival.
>
> Lastly, I asked about responding with evidence and the lack of
a deadline date provided in the PDF. I believe this is a fair
question given my unawareness of any wrongdoing and the
expectation of being able to discuss any issues with a warden.
>
> In conclusion, I respectfully request a review of the
circumstances surrounding the issuance of PCN BH10240956. I am
willing to provide any additional evidence or information
required to support my case and seek a fair resolution to this
matter.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
--- End Quote ---
None of that has any place on a TE9.
If attached it will be ignored or worse. you may get rejected
again.
Complete the form ticking just the relevant box and get it sent
to tec@justice.gov.uk
Come back here to confirm you've received an acknowledgement
e-mail.
#Post#: 21810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: JackFB
Date: May 8, 2024, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough thank you. Will do.
#Post#: 21977--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: Neil B
Date: May 9, 2024, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/23/made
Read sub para (7) for what happens next.
You will get your chance to make submissions to the adjudicator.
DO NOT opt for a postal decision, especially in a loading case
where your personal testimony is vital.
#Post#: 22615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Certificate Sent Ignoring my NtO Representations,
Brighton Council - ignore representations and online case d
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 15, 2024, 2:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JackFB link ---
>
> Fair enough thank you. Will do.
>
--- End Quote ---
Have you done this?
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