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#Post#: 33903--------------------------------------------------
Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: Rightbak
Date: August 20, 2024, 6:42 am
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Hi all
Hoping for some advice please.
On 13/8/24 the driver of the vehicle entered the KFC carpark at
Portsmouth North Harbour. They noticed a sign saying it was a
'Two hour max stay' carpark, but didn't read that it was 'A
customer Only Carpark'..
The driver stayed for 56 minutes and left.
Today the registered owner of the vehicle received the attached
PCN from Parkingeye.
Presumably there is something in the KFC building to enter a
vehicle registration (not confirmed), but the signs certainly
did not say this at the time (google street view confirms the
signage).
Would be most grateful for any help.
Thanks :)
P.S. I will try to attach a copy of the PCN in a reply as I am
getting errors uploading..
#Post#: 33905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 20, 2024, 6:45 am
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--- Quote from: Rightbak link ---
>
> P.S. I will try to attach a copy of the PCN in a reply as I am
getting errors uploading..
>
--- End Quote ---
This thread advises: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges
Forum guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
Once we've got the relevant info we can provide further advice.
In the meantime, was the driver a customer of the KFC?
#Post#: 33906--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: Rightbak
Date: August 20, 2024, 6:48 am
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Thanks for the info. Here is the link to the PCN
HTML https://imgur.com/a/bIOeGHV
And here is the link to the signage at the carpark
HTML https://imgur.com/a/vclLjUM
The driver was not a customer of KFC
#Post#: 33931--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: RichardW
Date: August 20, 2024, 11:19 am
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What time did you park? - you've blanked it out, invoice claims
the allowed parking time is 0 hours, which would suggest parking
outside of the 'allowed' hours of 10am - 11pm.
#Post#: 33933--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: Rightbak
Date: August 20, 2024, 11:24 am
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Hi
Arrival Time: 13/8/2024 09:12:55
Departure Time: 13/08/2024 10:08:55
Time In Car Park: 0 hours 56 minutes
Thanks
#Post#: 34151--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 22, 2024, 9:32 am
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So your issue was actually parking before 10am.
#Post#: 34179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: Rightbak
Date: August 22, 2024, 11:56 am
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Yes, I can see that now
#Post#: 34243--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 22, 2024, 5:10 pm
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There is an argument sometimes made that the notice does not
comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012, in order to hold the registered keeper liable
for the charge, as it does not 'invite' the keeper to pay the
charge, as required by 9(2)(e)(i) of the act. I'm not sure if
this argument has been tested, and my personal view on it is
that it would be a very brave person who sought to defend a
charge solely on this ground.
I wonder if an argument could be made that as parking was
forbidden during the times the vehicle was parked, no contract
was formed, as no consideration was offered by ParkingEye (the
sign isn't making a genuine offer to park for £100 when the
store is closed).
The issue with both of the above suggestions is that neither
ParkingEye nor POPLA would be likely to accept these arguments,
so you would need to potentially be prepared to argue the matter
in court.
Another thing to check, just to rule it out, is whether the land
is within the boundary of the harbour, and thus potentially
subject to byelaws. Given it's north of the motorway, I'd be
surprised, but worth ruling out.
#Post#: 34265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: Rightbak
Date: August 23, 2024, 3:37 am
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Thanks for your considered reply.
I have tried to check the boundary of Portsmouth Harbour, but
could not find anything that indicates the extent of where this
lies.
Therefore my understanding from your reply, is that the notice
does comply with requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedom Act 2012, other than two potential arguments, both of
which are unlikely to be accepted by both Parkingeye and POPLA.
I do not wish to go to court to find out whether these arguments
would hold.
Therefore I am left with a charge to pay of £60 rising to £100
if unpaid within 14 days of the date issued (16/8/24) so
30/8/24.
I do not particularly want to wait this out hoping that
Parkingeye go away, with the threat of court and ultimately
little chance of winning if it does go to court.
Therefore on the balance of risk I am assuming best to pay the
£60 now and move on?
Thank you
#Post#: 34295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
DIR By: b789
Date: August 23, 2024, 6:05 am
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Why would you not wish to go to court? Do you feel that the PCN
has been issued fairly? If so, you can pay it with a clear
conscience.
However, if you feel it was issued unfairly, then simply paying
it to take advantage of what is called the “mugs discount” is
the equivalent of knowingly paying a scammer and therefore
perpetuating the problem.
Having obliterated all the dates and times and not shown us the
back of the NtK doesn’t help us to help you but invariably, PE
fail to fully comply with PoFA 9(2)(e)(i). I have had extensive
and continue to have discussion almost daily with a long serving
district judge and he has confirmed that the argument about
9(2)(e)(i) is a perfectly valid defence point and, as is seen in
the PE NtKs I have shown him, does not comply and only the
driver can be liable.
If using that point, all you have to do is draw the judge to
that point. If there are other possible PoFA failures as
highlighted by [member=103]DWMB2[/member], then you do the same.
It is nothing about being “tested in court”. Judges make their
decisions based on facts. If you can show a “fact”, then it is
so. The only time a “balance of probability” comes into play is
when there are no “facts” to prove a point.
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