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#Post#: 33887--------------------------------------------------
3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: bebu
Date: August 20, 2024, 5:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
hello everyone
I moved from London to Hull and signed up to 2 gyms and spend
well over 2 hours weekdays at the gym, since I work from home
with computers, I hardly move. So need to make up for it
PROBLEM
A friend gave me a gym pass for pure gym in analby in Hull and
asked me to meet up with him before 5pm, So I got there about
440pm. Then when he came, we share pleasantries and went in and
did our workout. After I finished, I looked around and left
KINDLY NOTE:
No where in the gym does it say we have a max stay of 3 hours
None of the staff are in, after 6pm ish, as its all automated
No where in my welcome email or gym app does it say a max stay
PCN ISSUED
I got 2 tickets saying I am issued a PCN of £100 for overstaying
the 3 hours limit, which I appealed to the company
www.smartpartking.com, but was rejected.
I just drove to the center now, to see if there were signs
displayed and yes there are signs displayed, if you look
carefully. But not at the gym or entrance and it could easily be
missed
Kindly advise moving forward
as I want to lodge an independent appeal
Kind regards
Ehi
#Post#: 33890--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 20, 2024, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What's done is done, but in future, if you come here before
appealing this is preferable - we can get Smart Parking charges
cancelled on first appeal, as long as the driver is not
revealed. Nevertheless, all is not lost, and you can still
probably get this withdrawn at POPLA. Have they provided you
with POPLA codes?
To help us to help you, please read the following thread
carefully, and provide as much of the information it asks for as
you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum
guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
#Post#: 33892--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: bebu
Date: August 20, 2024, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
this ?
POPLA Verification Code: [REMOVED BY MOD]
Apologies, I thought appealing would be a walk in the park, as I
was given a free gym 5 day pass, as to be honest, I never saw
the 3 hours warning, until I drove back there now
many thanks
#Post#: 33897--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 20, 2024, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If you have two parking charges then you should have two POPLA
codes, as each is appealed separately. Have you appealed both?
#Post#: 33899--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: bebu
Date: August 20, 2024, 6:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> If you have two parking charges then you should have two POPLA
codes, as each is appealed separately. Have you appealed both?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes I have appealed both, but I only got the above rejection
today. I am guessing the 2nd is on the way
Apparently, I was there for 5 days in a row, but only got 2. I
am not sure, If I stayed below 3 hours in other 3 times, hence
future fines are on the way.
But for now, one rejected, one pending.
tnx
#Post#: 33916--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 20, 2024, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bebu link ---
>
> Apparently, I was there for 5 days in a row, but only got 2. I
am not sure, If I stayed below 3 hours in other 3 times, hence
future fines are on the way.
>
--- End Quote ---
ANPR is very unreliable, at our works car park it's about 60%
effective.
There will be no fines coming, there may be more invoices. Only
a court can fine you. If you do get more then use the right
appeal!
#Post#: 34105--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: bebu
Date: August 22, 2024, 2:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
hello
any advise on what to do next with my independent appeal ? many
thanks
#Post#: 34124--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 22, 2024, 6:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
A couple of general tips for POPLA:
- Be detailed. Lead the assessor through each of your points, as
if they have no prior knowledge. Leave as little room for
misinterpretation as possible and explain exactly why each point
means that your appeal should be upheld and the parking charge
cancelled.
- Don't write your appeal in the online form. Produce it as a
PDF that you will upload to the POPLA system. If you're
referencing signage, include photos in-line in your appeal
- Use numbered headings for each of your appeal points to make
the appeal easy to follow. Ideally read some other examples, on
here and the MSE forum, to get an idea of what a good POPLA
appeal looks like.
As this is Smart Parking, I would strongly recommend including a
point on landholder authority - in the past, including this has
often led to Smart withdrawing from the process, meaning you
win. There's an example of how to word such a point below:
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> No evidence of landholder authority
>
> The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of
contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority
flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the
operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to
the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of
operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to
complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises
this operator to issue parking charges or what the land
enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether
this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own
name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf
of’ the landowner.
>
> The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with
the BPA Code of Practice. As this operator does not have
proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that
they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the
landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User
Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any
'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site
occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key
evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and
any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have
a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just
because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and
issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised
to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers
and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal
action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for
a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of
the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even
identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.
>
> A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA
but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently
evidence the definition of the services provided by each party
to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as
charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which
I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in
the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and
bays where enforcement applies/does
> not apply.
>
> Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the
landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of
course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge
(which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because
template private parking terms and sums have been known not to
match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA
Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put
this operator to strict proof of full compliance:
>
> [indent]7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any
outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the
written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent)
prior to legal action being taken.
>
> 7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:
>
> [indent](a) the definition of the land on which you may
operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly
defined
> (b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and
enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of
operation
> (c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles
that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and
enforcement
> (d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining
signs
> (e) the definition of the services provided by each party to
the agreement[/indent][/indent]
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
#Post#: 34139--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: bebu
Date: August 22, 2024, 8:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> A couple of general tips for POPLA:
>
>
>
- Be detailed. Lead the assessor through each of your points, as
if they have no prior knowledge. Leave as little room for
misinterpretation as possible and explain exactly why each point
means that your appeal should be upheld and the parking charge
cancelled.
>
- Don't write your appeal in the online form. Produce it as a
PDF that you will upload to the POPLA system. If you're
referencing signage, include photos in-line in your appeal
>
- Use numbered headings for each of your appeal points to make
the appeal easy to follow. Ideally read some other examples, on
here and the MSE forum, to get an idea of what a good POPLA
appeal looks like.
>
>
>
> As this is Smart Parking, I would strongly recommend including
a point on landholder authority - in the past, including this
has often led to Smart withdrawing from the process, meaning you
win. There's an example of how to word such a point below:
> [quote author=b789 link=topic=2702.msg33737#msg33737
date=1724011843]
> No evidence of landholder authority
>
> The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of
contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority
flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the
operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to
the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of
operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to
complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises
this operator to issue parking charges or what the land
enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether
this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own
name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf
of’ the landowner.
>
> The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with
the BPA Code of Practice. As this operator does not have
proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that
they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the
landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User
Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any
'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site
occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key
evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and
any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have
a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just
because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and
issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised
to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers
and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal
action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for
a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of
the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even
identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.
>
> A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA
but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently
evidence the definition of the services provided by each party
to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as
charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which
I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in
the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and
bays where enforcement applies/does
> not apply.
>
> Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the
landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of
course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge
(which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because
template private parking terms and sums have been known not to
match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA
Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put
this operator to strict proof of full compliance:
>
> [indent]7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any
outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the
written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent)
prior to legal action being taken.
>
> 7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:
>
> [indent](a) the definition of the land on which you may
operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly
defined
> (b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and
enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of
operation
> (c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles
that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and
enforcement
> (d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining
signs
> (e) the definition of the services provided by each party to
the agreement[/indent][/indent]
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
[/quote]
I see, many thanks, as I would revert with my draft shortly.
I was given 28 days
#Post#: 34158--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3 hours Parking fine violation while at anlalby gym Hull
DIR By: b789
Date: August 22, 2024, 9:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
POPLA code is actually valid for 33 days. Just bear that in mind
if you need a little longer to formulate your appeal.
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