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#Post#: 33579--------------------------------------------------
Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: Natedog
Date: August 16, 2024, 11:38 am
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The driver was making an early morning delivery. They parked in
the car park as they couldn’t find the business as it was dark.
They left the vehicle to try and locate the business they were
delivering to. They didn’t notice a camera on entry but a
picture of the vehicle was taken at 01.54.34.
Is there any grounds to dispute this?
HTML https://ibb.co/MPdy60n
#Post#: 33584--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: b789
Date: August 16, 2024, 1:21 pm
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There are plenty of grounds to dispute this. If you follow the
advice you are unlikely to pay a penny to UKPC.
You need to appeal this as the keeper. Do not identify the
driver. There is no legal obligation for the keeper to do so to
an unregulated private parking company.
Only the unknown driver is liable. There is a flaw in the Notice
to Keeper (NtK) that renders it non-compliant with PoFA which
means that the known keeper cannot be liable for the charge.
PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) specifies that the NtK must specify the
period of parking to which the notice relates. There is no such
"period of parking" specified in that NtK.
In order to be able to hold the known keeper liable for the
charge, the NtK must fully comply with all the requirements of
PoFA. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.
UKPC signs are never compliant with PoFA or the BPA Code of
Practice (CoP). If it was dark, were any signs conspicuous or
easy to see? A photo of any signs in the same lighting
conditions (no flash or headlights) would be useful for the
POPLA appeal. Also, a clear picture of a sign containing the
terms would also be useful for comparing to the "Beavis" sign to
show that the charge is not adequately brought to the attention
of the driver (PoFA 2(2)).
UKPC are not going to accept any appeal so you need to make a
short one to them in order to get the POPLA code. Appeal with
the following to UKPC:
--- Quote ---
> I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.
I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be
making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client
landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, namely no period of parking is
defined in the NtK as required per paragraph 9(2)(a), you are
unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge.
Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There
will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or
assumptions can be drawn.
>
> Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation
of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close
up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location
on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.
>
> I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 33586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: b789
Date: August 16, 2024, 1:34 pm
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Having had another look at the NtK, there is another breach of
the BPA CoP because the photo used in the NtK has been cropped
(altered) as the timestamp is not readable.
Joint CoP 7.3(b) & 7.4
HTML https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf<br
/>and BPA CoP 21.5a
HTML https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdf
#Post#: 33668--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: Natedog
Date: August 18, 2024, 12:57 am
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Thank you so much. I will follow exactly what you said and keep
you updated. Thanks again!
#Post#: 37168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: Natedog
Date: September 17, 2024, 6:33 am
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So the update on my parking ticket appeal… They have written
back to me asking me to provide them with the drivers details
for them to make a decision on the appeal.
They have given me 7 days to provide this information, otherwise
they will just make a decision from the information provided
previously.
They have also said this: Schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking
charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered
keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has
not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the
driver.
So I am guessing I should just ignore this and let them make a
decision on my appeal? They also said they will only issue a
POPLA code after they have made a decision.
#Post#: 37169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: September 17, 2024, 6:39 am
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Yep, either leave them to it or remind them you won't be
providing these details as you are not obliged to.
#Post#: 37172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: b789
Date: September 17, 2024, 6:50 am
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You can ignore UKPC's request for the driver’s details, as there
is indeed no legal obligation for you to identify the driver.
Their claim about Schedule 4 of PoFA is misleading because they
can only hold the keeper liable if they have fully complied with
all the requirements set out in PoFA, which you’ve already noted
they have not done (particularly regarding the lack of a defined
period of parking in the NtK).
Waiting for their rejection and the POPLA code is the better
course of action. If you do want to respond, you can highlight
their intellectual malnourishment. Here's a suggested response
you could use:
--- Quote ---
> Subject: Response to Your Request for Driver's Details
>
> Dear UKPC,
>
> Thank you for your letter dated [insert date]. As you are well
aware and I would like to reiterate, that as the registered
keeper, I am under no legal obligation to provide the details of
the driver, and I will not be doing so.
>
> You have referred to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms
Act 2012 (PoFA); however, you seem to have overlooked or
completely failed to comprehend the fact, that to hold the
keeper liable, you must meet ALL the conditions laid out in
PoFA, which, as I previously pointed out, your Notice to Keeper
fails to do. Partial or even substantial compliance is
insufficient, and therefore you will not be able to rely on PoFA
to pursue the registered keeper.
>
> Please get on with it and either cancel this PCN or provide a
POPLA code so that I can escalate it to POPLA, and if necessary,
to a court claim, issued either through your own failed "legal
department" or through your preferred bulk litigator, DCB Legal,
and you already know, when defended robustly, will eventually be
discontinued.
>
> Yours faithfully,
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 37175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: Natedog
Date: September 17, 2024, 6:57 am
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Hahaha! Thanks I will definitely be using that response!
#Post#: 40987--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: Natedog
Date: October 16, 2024, 5:40 am
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So just as was predicted, my appeal has failed so now I will
proceed with an appeal to POPLA. Is there any advice you guys
can give me going forward. Thanks.
#Post#: 40988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
DIR By: b789
Date: October 16, 2024, 5:42 am
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SO, on what basis did they reject your appeal?
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