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#Post#: 35716--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: September 5, 2024, 5:08 am
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Your question #1 was about the debt collection fees, not whether
the original parking charge is subject to VAT. They haven't even
bothered to answer #2. For #3, you have only uploaded 3 pages
(of what should be 8, by the looks of the footers), is that
because they only sent you 3?
That contract had also expired at the time the parking charge
notice was issued.
#Post#: 35717--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 5, 2024, 5:11 am
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Yes, this is everything they sent me.
At this point do I go back questioning those points?
#Post#: 35720--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 5, 2024, 5:18 am
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I also note that they've alluded to the BPA's code of practice,
but VCS aren't a BPA Approved Operator. Is this anything?
#Post#: 35726--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: September 5, 2024, 5:50 am
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Is what you’ve shown us, the sum total of the “contract” they
have sent to you?
Regarding the “template” response to the other questions
asked...
--- Quote ---
> This is not our client’s usual business, and the resources
could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had
you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need
for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased.
--- End Quote ---
Just to highlight the level of intellectual malnourishment you
are dealing with here, you can tell by the highlighted bit above
that you are dealing with people who apparently never finished
basic English grammar in primary school.
The response to the three questions is evasive and incomplete,
providing limited answers and not addressing all your concerns
directly. You asked whether the £70 charge is a debt recovery
fee and if it's inclusive or exclusive of VAT, specifically why
you'd be covering the operator’s VAT liability.
They cite the HMRC guidance, asserting that parking charges fall
outside the scope of VAT, so no VAT invoice is needed. They have
not directly clarified whether the £70 includes VAT or addressed
the concern about VAT liability being passed to you. They have
avoided explaining the exact composition of the £70 fee in terms
of VAT and have tried to justify it as a debt recovery fee based
on internal costs.
The second question asked whether the principal sum was being
claimed as damages or as consideration for a service. In their
response, they don’t explicitly answer whether it's damages or
consideration, but they imply the amount reflects what you would
have (of) paid under the contract (for parking). They emphasise
that the fee increased due to non-payment and recovery efforts.
The nature of the principal sum remains vague as they focus on
the rationale for additional fees rather than clarifying the
legal basis of the charge itself (damages vs. consideration).
The third question requested evidence of a valid contract
involving the landowner, OTPP, and their managing agent, Bristol
Airport Ltd, granting their client the right to issue PCNs. The
excuse for a contract provided, consists of only three pages
(cover page, definitions/services, and a partial signature
page).
Crucially, the contract appears to be between Bristol Airport
Ltd and the agent, VCS, not the landowner, as specifically
requested. They have provided a partial contract that does not
fully meet the request, as it lacks clear evidence of direct
authorisation flowing from the landowner (OTPP) through the
agent to VCS. The documentation is minimal and incomplete.
Their response is evasive and focuses on justifying the charges
rather than addressing the specific legal queries. The VAT issue
is not fully explained, the legal nature of the principal sum is
unclear and the excuse for a contract provided does not
sufficiently prove the authority they claim to have from the
landowner.
DCB Legal are issuing thousands of claims every week and there
appears to be a significant financial incentive to obscure the
VAT aspect, particularly since they’ve chosen to sidestep the
clear question regarding whether the £70 fee includes VAT. By
failing to clarify whether the £70 is inclusive of VAT, they
have avoided having to account for VAT payments to HMRC. This
allows them to pocket the full amount, effectively overcharging
you.
As the fee should include VAT but they are not declaring it,
this amounts to VAT fraud as they are collecting VAT from
consumers without passing it on to the tax authorities. Debt
recovery fees are supposed to reflect actual costs, but by
inflating the figure and leaving the VAT question ambiguous,
they anre unjustly enriching themselves under the guise of "cost
recovery."
As we strongly suspect VAT fraud, you should report the matter
to HMRC, which may investigate whether the company is correctly
accounting for VAT on these additional fees. It takes a few
minutes to do so online here:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud
It’s very straightforward and once reported, you will have no
further involvement. The sums involved are suspected to be in
the “millions”.
#Post#: 35729--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 5, 2024, 5:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the above.
Yes, just to be clear, the 3 pages I've shared is the sum of
what was sent to me by DCBLegal.
Very good point on the VAT front. I'll report them immediately.
#Post#: 35733--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: September 5, 2024, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
We don’t normally recommend responding to their response to your
response to the LoC but I’m minded to suggest something, just to
give them notice that even though they are going to discontinue
the claim in due course, they are on notice that their failure
to comply with the PAP by not providing the answers or the full
contract, is going to cause them anxiety as they scramble to
cover their backsides.
#Post#: 35747--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: September 5, 2024, 6:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm broadly of the same view as b789... In general it's not
worth getting into protracted correspondence at this stage.
They're not going to budge from their position that you owe
their client money and you're not going to budge from your
position that you do not.
But in this case, they haven't even bothered to answer one of
your questions, and have done a shoddy job of answering the
other two. Given that, pointing this out seems a decent movie.
I'd be minded to ignore the contract date at this stage. If they
want to present a contract that expired in 2023 as evidence they
had authority to issue parking charges in 2024, let them crack
on.
#Post#: 35770--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: September 5, 2024, 8:30 am
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It is probably worth responding to them with the following:
--- Quote ---
> Subject: Mendacious Response and Failure to Comply with PAP
>
> Dear Shahera Begum,
>
> I write to address the glaring contradictions in your recent
response and your apparent disregard for honesty and
transparency.
>
> You have stated that parking charge notices fall outside the
scope of VAT according to HMRC’s VATSC06140, and therefore, no
VAT invoice is required. However, you go on to state that the
additional £70 is for "debt recovery fees" incurred by your
client as a result of my alleged non-payment.
>
> This assertion is inconsistent and misleading. Debt recovery
fees, unlike parking charges, are not VAT-exempt. You have
explicitly admitted that the £70 is for debt recovery, which is
a separate service from the PCN. As such, these charges are
subject to VAT. Yet, you have chosen to obscure this fact by
refusing to provide a breakdown of the amount or clarify whether
VAT has been included. This evasiveness strongly suggests that
you and/or your client are knowingly attempting to recover an
inflated sum without properly accounting for VAT.
>
> Furthermore, your reliance on the BPA Code of Practice to
justify the £70 fee does not negate the fact that debt recovery
services are not VAT exempt. Your failure to disclose whether
VAT is included in this fee, combined with your attempt to
characterise the £70 as part of a debt recovery process, exposes
a deliberate effort to mislead.
>
> Should this matter proceeds to court, I will bring to the
court's attention your blatant contradictions, your mendacious
response, and your refusal to comply with the Pre-Action
Protocol. This lack of honesty and transparency will be noted as
an attempt to confuse and overcharge. The court is unlikely to
look favourably upon such conduct, especially when coupled with
your disregard for the rules governing pre-litigation
disclosure.
>
> I strongly suggest you reconsider your position and provide
the clarity and full documentation required by the PAP,
including a proper breakdown of the £70 fee with reference to
VAT. If you fail to do so, I will have no hesitation in using
your own admissions against you and your client in any
subsequent proceedings.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> [Your Name]
--- End Quote ---
Keep the failure to disclose the contract and the fact that they
have failed to evidence the contract for subsequent comms. Let's
see if they bother to respond to the above.
It is a fact that any claim issued by DCB Legal will be
discontinued just before they are required to pay the trial fee.
The above is simply to have a bit of fun at their expense and
puts them on notice that they are not dealing with low-hanging
fruit on the gullible tree.
#Post#: 35776--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 5, 2024, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Appreciate the help! I've already sent a response but it
effectively covers all of the points in your message.
Thanks again.
#Post#: 35780--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: September 5, 2024, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It would help if you could show us any planned response, just in
case there is anything that could prejudice your case that you
may not have noticed but maybe we will.
Can you please show us the wording you used in your response?
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