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#Post#: 34281--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: slapdash
Date: August 23, 2024, 5:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There are actually 2 crossings, and I have just seen the notice
(it failed for some reason the first time).
Both have signage on the railings saying no loading amongst
other things.
You are at the second one it seems, but going out of the
airport. In order to get there you would have gone past the
short stay/arrivals car park turning (which you would have done
of course since it's closed), gone to the next small roundabout,
ignored/missed the left turn for the arrivals/pickup and gone
fully round it to get back to that crossing.
Meanwhile your passenger would have missed the signage to the
pick up pointing them left from the terminal. Missed the signage
and visible buses to the right and instead headed over the road
towards the terminal long term, hotels and coach station.
So you both got a bit lost at exactly the same time and your
passenger fortuitously jumped in.
Your burden in court is proving that is how events unfolded on
the balance of probability.
The other avenues might be better.
#Post#: 34282--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 23, 2024, 5:32 am
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--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> Your burden in court is proving that is how events unfolded on
the balance of probability.
>
> Other avenues might be better.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the 'other avenues' are the ones already covered above.
How events unfolded is irrelevant if no contract was formed.
Spending too much time forensically analysing the actions of the
passenger may be of detriment rather than benefit, as I
suggested above.
#Post#: 34284--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: August 23, 2024, 5:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> You are at the second one it seems, but going out of the
airport. In order to get there you would have gone past the
short stay/arrivals car park turning (which you would have done
of course since it's closed), gone to the next small roundabout,
ignored/missed the left turn for the arrivals/pickup and gone
fully round it to get back to that crossing.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am actually heading towards the car park. I was driving to the
pickup area, red traffic lights, passenger jumped in, green
light, moved away, around the roundabout and then out of the
airport.
#Post#: 34285--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: August 23, 2024, 5:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=b789 link=topic=2810.msg34278#msg34278
date=1724408179]
> VCS are pursuing the keeper under the assumption that they
were the driver
>
--- End Quote ---
They are pursuing the driver, who has been identified to them.
[/quote]
In which case, the other points about no contract are still
valid. Did the driver breach any contract as alleged by VCS?
Signage parallel to the direction of travel is irrelevant and
even if it weren’t, is it enough to form a “contract”.
Thinking of this as though some sort of “offence” has been
committed by the driver is wrong. The pedestrian has not
committed any “offence” and is not being sued. What the
pedestrian may have seen or done is irrelevant.
The simple question is did the driver breach any contract? No.
#Post#: 34329--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: slapdash
Date: August 23, 2024, 8:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: BDayOwl link ---
>
> I am actually heading towards the car park. I was driving to
the pickup area.
--- End Quote ---
My mistake, it was hard to tell from the dark photos.
#Post#: 35595--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 4, 2024, 7:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
Letter of Claim received today. What are the next steps?
#Post#: 35596--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: September 4, 2024, 7:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What is the "issue date" of the claim? Please show us the
Particulars of Claim (PoC).
#Post#: 35602--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 4, 2024, 7:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Letter is dated 29th August 2024.
Picture here:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/w8EDu7w
#Post#: 35607--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: September 4, 2024, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Apologies, I thought it was an N1SDT claim form you received.
Respond with the following:
--- Quote ---
> Subject: Response to Letter of Claim dated 29th August 2024
>
> Dear DCB Legal,
>
> I acknowledge receipt of your Letter of Claim dated 29th
August 2024.
>
> Please note that my address for service, assuming you intend
to proceed without undue delay, is as follows: [YOUR ADDRESS]. I
require that any previous addresses be removed from your records
in accordance with data protection regulations.
>
> I wish to make it clear that the alleged debt is disputed, and
any court proceedings will be vigorously defended. No contract
can have been entered into, as any signage at the location is
prohibitory. It is embarrassing that a firm of supposed legal
representatives does not understand this concept.
>
> It has also come to my attention that the amount claimed has
been substantially increased by an additional £70. The
Government has previously referred to such charges as 'extorting
money from motorists,' and I share this view. Therefore, I
expect you to refrain from sending any further correspondence
justifying this inflated claim without addressing the specific
points I raise below.
>
> Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I am entitled
to request specific information, and I ask that you provide
clear answers to the following questions:
>
> [indent]1. Am I correct in understanding that the additional
£70 is being claimed as a 'Debt Recovery' fee? If so, is this
amount inclusive or exclusive of VAT? If it is inclusive, please
explain why I am being asked to cover the VAT liability of the
operator.
>
> 2. Regarding the principal sum allegedly due under the PCN: Is
this being claimed as damages, or is it intended to be pleaded
as consideration for a service (i.e., parking)?
>
> 3. I will require evidence of a contract flowing from the
landowner, Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan (OTPP), through their
managing agent, Bristol Airport Ltd, to your client, evidencing
their contractual right to issue PCNs in their own
name.[/indent]
>
> I look forward to your prompt and full response to these
queries.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Your Full Name]
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 35713--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: September 5, 2024, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Received quite a swift reply.
--- Quote ---
>
> We write in response to your correspondence received in our
office dated 4th September 2024.
>
>
>
> We now respond to the same as follows.
>
>
>
> The address we have on our records is your current address -
XXXXXXX.
>
> Any previous addresses have been removed.
>
>
>
> The HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140),
which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that
parking charge notices falls out of the scope of VAT. There is
no requirement for a VAT invoice to be issued to you.
>
> The sum added is a contribution to the actual costs incurred
by our client as a result of your non-payment. Our client’s
employees have spent time and material attempting to recover the
debt. This is not our client’s usual business, and the resources
could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had
you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need
for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased.
>
> In accordance with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code
of Practice, where the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) becomes
overdue and before Court proceedings have commenced, a
reasonable sum may be added for the debt recovery fees. BPA -
24.1b “Where a Parking Charge becomes overdue and before Court
Proceedings have commenced, a reasonable sum (which covers the
cost of recovering debt) may be added for the debt recovery
fees. This sum must not exceed £70 unless prior approval from
the BPA has been granted”. The correct recovery fees have been
added and will not be removed.
>
>
>
> Please see the attached contract agreement.
>
>
> You now have 30 days from the date of this email to make
payment of £170.00. Failure to make payment will result in a
Claim being issued against you without any further reference.
>
> Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client
account: -
>
> Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account
> Sort Code: 20-24-09
> Account Number: 60964441
> You must quote the correct case reference (XXXXX) when making
payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate
the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an
incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any
further fees or costs incurred.
>
> Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038
to make payment over the telephone or online at
HTML https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Shahera Begum
>
> Administration Associate
>
> DCB Legal Ltd
>
--- End Quote ---
Attachment:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/R0i2Oa3
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