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#Post#: 33251--------------------------------------------------
VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop off a
passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: August 13, 2024, 10:41 am
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hi all,
We're being pursued by VCS for 'stopping to collect a passenger'
at Bristol Airport, despite the passenger entering the vehicle
while the vehicle was stationary at a temporary red traffic
light. The light was red the entire time that the passenger was
embarking.
Foolishly, we have identified the driver to VCS as this seemed
an open and shut case and didn't realise that the appeals
process is a kangaroo court. We have gone through the full
appeals process and it has been denied at every point (both with
VCS and with the IAS).
We're now being pursued by DCBL for £170 (increased from £100).
Formal complaints have been made to Bristol Airport, to VCS (who
have not replied to the complaint) and to the DVLA, who advised
us that the only recourse is to appeal to the IAS, a process
that we had already exhausted.
Letters and appeal details available here:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/Utrmx2w
We've confirmed via a SAR that the photos included in the charge
notice are ALL images that they have of the vehicle.
Any advice on how best to proceed here would be much
appreciated. I only stumbled on this site today and see that
you've been able to provide invaluable assistance to others, so
holding out hope that we don't have to stump up for this
injustice.
#Post#: 33252--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: August 13, 2024, 10:42 am
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Why was the driver identified? What a waste of a guaranteed win.
#Post#: 33253--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: August 13, 2024, 10:45 am
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Naivety. It seemed a mistake on their part to be pursuing
something so obviously cut and dry, so we contacted them to
notify them of their embarrassing misunderstanding.
We appreciate what a mistake that was, but still hope the case
is redeemable.
#Post#: 33254--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: August 13, 2024, 10:52 am
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Now you have to argue the fact that the "reasonable cause" they
are claiming, namely "stopping to pick up/drop off in a
restricted zone", is not true. If the driver stopped because of
a red light and a person over the age of 14 decides to get in or
out of the vehicle while the traffic light is red, the vehicle
was not stopped to pick up or drop off and the driver cannot be
responsible for the actions of that person.
You are past any chance to appeal this and are now waiting to
see if/when VCS take you to court. You can safely ignore all the
debt collector letters that are going to come your way with the
fat added £70 DRA fee. Come back if/when you receive a Letter of
Claim (LoC) that gives you 30 days to pay. We don't need to see
any of the set collector letters or reminders. Use them as
emergency toilet paper if you must.
#Post#: 34272--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: slapdash
Date: August 23, 2024, 4:19 am
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A difficulty might possibly be "she just got in" and any defence
might need to rest on other points.
Your only real option is to wait for a court claim and defend
that. Cost of loss would be about £220. You don't get a ccj
provided an adverse judgement is paid in time.
The contract is not to stop. However after that point there is a
roundabout, a number of currently closed turning to the right
for various non functional parking (including the short stay
arrivals)
and a pedestrian crossing below the terminal, a left turn into
the drop off and the variable location of the constantly moving
temporary lights.
Stopping under those circumstances - the normal course of
traffic - cannot reasonably be a contravention.
A passenger jumping in coincidentally doesn't change the reason
for the stop.
There is also a slim chance it occurred on a part of the roadway
not under vcs control.
There is however a credibility issue. There is little reason
that would put a potential passenger and the vehicle collecting
them coincidentally at the same place.
Where, exactly, were the temporary lights.
#Post#: 34273--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: August 23, 2024, 4:26 am
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Thanks for your post.
The traffic lights were located where there is an existing zebra
crossing (51.387023, -2.711737). I'm also concerned about
proving this coincidence was exactly that. The passenger was
incidentally in the wrong place because she thought the pick up
was near the bus station. However, a coincidence is exactly what
it was.
My main hope here is that ALL of the evidence that VCS hold
shows the car stopped at the red traffic lights. There is no
picture showing the car while the traffic lights are not red,
therefore I would hope the 'reason' for stopping is abundantly
clear, coincidence or not. Had they provided one picture of the
car stopped at a green traffic light I'd absolutely pay up.
#Post#: 34275--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 23, 2024, 4:43 am
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--- Quote from: BDayOwl link ---
>
> I'm also concerned about proving this coincidence was exactly
that.
>
--- End Quote ---
See what others think, but you might be better off not spending
too much time trying to prove that. What you don't want is for
the judge to think you're taking the p*** or trying to insult
their intelligence.
Your other defence points can hopefully stand on their own,
regardless of the reason for the passenger being at the
location. One of the points will presumably be that the signage
is forbidding (a sign that says 'no stopping' 'no drop off/pick
up' is not making an offer to stop/park on certain terms, so
what contract can be formed?). Another will presumably be that
even if a contract had been formed, the terms were impossible to
comply with due to the presence of traffic lights forcing you to
stop.
#Post#: 34276--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: BDayOwl
Date: August 23, 2024, 4:49 am
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That's my argument I think. Lights went red, vehicle stopped,
car door opened, car door closed, vehicle waited for a few
seconds, lights went green, car moved off. Aside from fighting
the passenger off or driving into the pedestrians, there wasn't
really much of an option. The vehicle stopped in order to comply
with the traffic lights.
#Post#: 34278--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: b789
Date: August 23, 2024, 5:16 am
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No “contract” was breached. You are apparently under the
assumption that VCS are some kind of “authority” that can issue
a “fine” or a “penalty” for an “offence”. It is nothing of the
sort.
It is an alleged breach of contract by the driver. What
“contract” do you think was in place? Where did you agree not to
“pick up or drop off in a restricted zone”? Do the signs where
the vehicle was stopped specifically state “no pick up or drop
off” or do they say “stopping prohibited” or both?
Either way, there is no contractual offer of any kind. VCS are
pursuing the keeper under the assumption that they were the
driver (not allowed due no keeper liability) for a contractual
breach which is an impossibility because for a contract to
exist, there needs to be an “offer”, “acceptance” and
“consideration”. A sign prohibiting something makes no “offer”
and there is no “consideration”, so what was “accepted”.
Finally, there is the fact that a driver is not responsible for
the actions of another adult. The vehicle was stopped at a red
traffic light, which is a legal requirement, and the driver is
obligated to stop.
While stationary at a red light, the driver is fulfilling a
legal obligation under traffic regulations (airport bylaws in
this case). The pedestrian's decision to enter the vehicle while
it is stopped at a traffic light is an independent action of an
adult. The driver is not responsible for the actions of the
pedestrian who chooses to enter the vehicle at that time.
Additionally, the notion of picking up or dropping off in a
prohibited area typically implies a deliberate action rather
than a consequence of following traffic signals.
There is ample defence argument to have VCS spanked in court
should they actually issue a claim.
Remember, you do not have to prove anything. The burden of proof
is on the claimant. You do not have to prove that it was a
“coincidence”. The claimant would have to prove that the keeper
was also the driver and that they breached a contractual term on
a sign. That’s it. They can’t.
#Post#: 34279--------------------------------------------------
Re: VCS - Bristol Airport - PCN for 'Stopping to Pick up/Drop
off a passenger' at a temporary red light
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 23, 2024, 5:22 am
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> VCS are pursuing the keeper under the assumption that they
were the driver
>
--- End Quote ---
They are pursuing the driver, who has been identified to them.
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