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#Post#: 33035--------------------------------------------------
Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: Supasta
Date: August 12, 2024, 4:10 am
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Hi all.
A disabled driver got this parking ticket for parking just on
the white line - the line isn’t clearly visible in the photo but
the car is not over it completely. Are there any grounds for
appeal on this? A
lso just for completion sake blue badge was displayed but this
wasn’t a disabled spot.
Image of notice is here -
HTML https://imgur.com/a/BPTAX58
#Post#: 33049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: Dave65
Date: August 12, 2024, 5:31 am
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Another example of the cowboy attitude still going on to try and
get a few more pounds out of the motorist.
It would be worth contacting the owners of the site, if it is
multiple shops and complaining to them about the tactics of this
PPC over trivial issues.
#Post#: 33059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 12, 2024, 5:54 am
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As above. We usually always recommend contacting the landowners,
but this is a very good example of a case where you should. I
doubt whoever hired the parking company intended for them to be
brought in to charge motorists who parked with their wheel a few
cm over the line, in an end bay causing absolutely no
obstruction.
#Post#: 33066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: b789
Date: August 12, 2024, 6:15 am
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Was there a reason the driver did not park in a blue badge bay?
Under no circumstances identify the driver. You will be
appealing as the keeper of the vehicle.
PP have no idea who the driver is. The keeper is under no legal
obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private
parking company.
There is a failure to fully comply with PoFA which means that
the keeper cannot be liable for the charge. If the driver is not
identified… Catch-22.
In order to fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA to be
able to hold the keeper liable, they should have complied with
paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of the Act. They haven’t. There is no
“invitation”, nor any synonym of the word, for the keeper to pay
the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance or not
sufficient.
As for your Plan A, try and find out the managing agent for the
land. If it is a retail park, you will often find the name of
the managing agent on the advertising plinth that has all the
names of the shops or businesses at the site.
Do not miss the deadline to do your Plan B appeal to the
operator. They will reject, guaranteed, but you will then get a
POPLA code for your Plan C appeal.
Please show us what you intend to put in your appeal before you
submit anything.
I have also noticed another flaw in the Notice to Keeper (NtK).
It says you have to make payment within 29 days. You actually
have 28 days after the NtK has been given to you, which is two
working days after it is issued. They claim it was issued on
Saturday 3rd August. That means it was given to you on Tuesday
6th August. Therefore, the payment is not due (not that you’ll
be paying a penny) until Tuesday 3rd September. It will be
interesting to see if they try to initiate debt collection
reminders before this date. This is a breach of the BPA Code of
Practice (CoP) which is useful for thenPOPLA appeal.
#Post#: 33095--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: Supasta
Date: August 12, 2024, 9:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you all.
Will try and contact Tesco but I noticed previously that there
was a big sign on the front doors saying to contact Premier Park
in case of any parking issues and not contact Tesco. I presume
they have had issues in the past. I will take a Look at the
signage to see what other details are there.
There were no disabled bays available hence why it was parked in
a normal bay.
What grounds would I submit an appeal on to PP (and further to
POPLA if required)? Is the driver not technically still in
breach of their "laws"? How does one argue against it? Can I use
the unclear photos to my advantage?
#Post#: 33099--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: b789
Date: August 12, 2024, 10:00 am
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You email a complaint to the Tesco CEO Ken Murphy
ken.murphy@uk.tesco.com
You explain how, as a long term loyal customer, you do not
expect to be invoiced by an unregulated private parking company
for £100 just for being a patron of the store. You ask that they
get their agent to cancel the PCN which, is for a de minimus
cause and was due to there being insufficient parking slots
available for customers with a disability. Maybe you needed to
park a few inches over to allow for access to the side of the
car.
Just tell them that you have a choice of supermarkets to shop at
and you, your family and friends will be wary of ever using this
store again if they allow their agent to act in a unfair manner.
For your appeal, simply state the following:
--- Quote ---
> I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.
I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be
making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client
landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, namely no "invitation", or any
synonym of the word, for the keeper to pay the charge as per
paragraph 9(2)(e)(i), you are unable to hold the keeper of the
vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial
compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to
who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn.
>
> Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation
of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close
up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location
on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.
>
> I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 33113--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: Supasta
Date: August 12, 2024, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks.
I've shot an email to the tesco CEO and have also sent the same
email to the Arena Shopping Park management as well.
Shall I wait a few days before submitting the formal appeal to
PP?
Cheers.
#Post#: 33116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 12, 2024, 11:45 am
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Shame.
I suggested the following while you were typing!
'We, the creditor, now request this amount is paid....and if you
were not the driver...' which is a direct quote from the PCN
would, IMO, be accepted as an invitation to the keeper to pay,
after all the PCN's addressed to the keeper.
OP, IMO you should appeal to Premier Park and then to Tesco in
that order.
You appeal to PP in such a way as to invite them to ridicule
your claim to de minimis, even assuming one accepts a breach at
all, and to not give due regard to the BB and your/your
passenger's needs. You would also point out no-one was impeded
or inconvenienced and that elsewhere in the car park, as indeed
is common practice with all off-street car park providers and a
regulatory requirement on-street, the designated bays for the
disabled are wider than those for other cars for the obvious
reason that in general they require more free space to
enter/exit their vehicles. It could not have escaped the
attendant's notice that a BB was displayed and therefore more
room needed. You accept that it was not a designated bay, but
cannot imagine that Tesco intend that BB holders should drive
off without shopping simply because they cannot access a
disabled bay for fear that an employee of their parking
contractor believes that these drivers are fair game for £100
parking charge simply because they need a little extra space in
a regular bay.
A BB holder's needs don't change simply because they cannot park
in a disabled bay.
As thick as you like to make it.
AND THEN if they reject you go to Tesco with your appeal and
appeal and say 'I tried the method you advise in your store and
this is the considered response of your contractor. I would
kindly ask that you exercise better judgement and instruct them
to cancel'. But you're not there yet.
To do it vice-versa risks you missing the contractor's appeals
deadline while you wait for a reply from Tesco and the
contractor disregarding because you then submit an appeal late.
There will be other views, but do not wait too long and risk
missing the PCN deadline.
#Post#: 33126--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: Supasta
Date: August 12, 2024, 12:39 pm
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Appreciate the input HC Andersen.
This is still very early days so I'll give Tesco and arena
shopping admin till the later end of this week and if I don't
hear back from them, then I'll submit the appeal to PP which
should still be within 14 days.
Are you of the opinion that I shouldn't use the below text and
use what you have suggested?
Thanks
--- Quote ---
> I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.
I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be
making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client
landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, namely no "invitation", or any
synonym of the word, for the keeper to pay the charge as per
paragraph 9(2)(e)(i), you are unable to hold the keeper of the
vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial
compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to
who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn.
>
> Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation
of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close
up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location
on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.
>
> I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 33148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Premier Park - Not parked within Bay - Arena Shopping Park
Coventry
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: August 12, 2024, 3:18 pm
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--- Quote ---
> To do it vice-versa risks you missing the contractor's appeals
deadline while you wait for a reply from Tesco
--- End Quote ---
Only if they let the appeal deadline pass. My personal view is
that contacting Tesco first is wise. If they intervene, no need
to faff about with Premier.
I think I disagree with b789's suggested appeal here. Where one
has a meritoious point about the actual alleged breach (ie how
marginal it is), my view is this should be front and centre.
Technical appeal points have their place, but where there's a
strong reason the charge shouldn't have been issued at all, this
should be raised.
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