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#Post#: 2158--------------------------------------------------
Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: bigbluffang
Date: July 30, 2023, 2:54 am
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Hi Ivan
I received this PCN yesterday, contravention code 31.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Thanks
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 2160--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: July 30, 2023, 3:47 am
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Please post up rest of PCN and a GSV link to the location as per
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
You also need to obtain and post up a link to the video, which
is the evidence.
#Post#: 2164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: bigbluffang
Date: July 30, 2023, 5:18 am
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HI
I’m not very computer savvy and I don’t know how to post the
video.
Also what is GSV?
This PCN is for the box junction on Lea Bridge Road, N17,
London.
There was oncoming traffic and when I made the turn the lights
all round had turned red. This is why I couldn’t move forward or
into the space to the left.
#Post#: 2165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: July 30, 2023, 5:31 am
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Lea Bridge Road/ Argall Way E10 according to the PCN. Here?
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/XX51Q4UD7NYs7nC68
And you were coming from - to?
One of the experts here should be able to get the video for you
(beyond my pay grade).
And the rest of the PCN, please.
#Post#: 2167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: bigbluffang
Date: July 30, 2023, 5:44 am
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I’m totally lost on here, lol.
I came up Argyle Way to turn right onto Lea Bridge Road. Still
not sure what I did wrong or what I could have done differently.
What more of the PCN should I post here?
Thanks
#Post#: 2168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: bigbluffang
Date: July 30, 2023, 5:46 am
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Also I was asked to post here by Ivan Murry-Smith.
I posted on FB Free Traffic Advise, he asked me to post here as
he could draft me a reply. I’ve not been able to find him on
here.
#Post#: 2172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: July 30, 2023, 6:03 am
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He's around... if you look, he's just edited my last post to
you!
He's a very busy man, but he'll be along...,
#Post#: 2174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 30, 2023, 6:21 am
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Video:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km7-LgAmWUY
This is the position where you stopped:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wqjFI02.png
There were roughly 14 feet clar ahead of your car:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wTpzzw9.png
So the key question is, how long is your car exactly? The
handbook should tell you.
As far as I can see from
HTML https://www.carexpert.com.au/kia/sportage/2021-gt-line-awd-daa49dae<br
/>your car should be 14.7 feet, so given you were at an angle
you
should have just about been able to squeeze in the gap. However
if you can get the exact spec from the owner's manual, that's
more reliable than some random website.
#Post#: 2177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: bigbluffang
Date: July 30, 2023, 6:42 am
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4485mm (176.6 inches) in length.
I read the road and the traffic on Lea Bridge Road had started
to move. I drove forward as I knew there was enough space for
me. I couldn’t have foreseen that all the lights would turn red.
The video doesn’t show the oncoming traffic it just shows me and
car in front turning right. It also doesn’t show the red lights
at that crossing but you can see the other lights are red. At
this junction all the lights turn red at the same time and the
crossings makes a bleeping sound all round. I and the car in
front had stopped for the red light and I got trapped in the
box.
#Post#: 2183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box junction PCN
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: July 30, 2023, 7:27 am
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That's not how red lights work, at least not in the UK. The rule
is that you cannot cross the stop line, your stop line would
have been here:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/NMniONZ.png
Once you're past the stop line, the lights simply don't apply to
you and you're entitled to keep going. This means that if you're
halfway across a junction when the lights turn red, you can (and
usually should) simply keep going.
So while I appreciate why you stopped where you did, the law on
red lights did not require you to do so.
As for the PCN, here's a simple representation you can send, I
recommend you put this into a PDF document and upload it to the
council website as an attachment, together with a photo from
your car's owner's manual showing the length of the vehicle.
[indent]
Dear London Borough of Waltham Forest,
I challenge liability for PCN FR60117364 on the grounds that the
alleged contravention did not occur. As the video confirms,
there was space ahead of my vehicle when I stopped:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/wqjFI02.png
I could have proceeded further, but chose not to do so because I
would have then obstructed the pedestrian crossing. My path was
not blocked by stationary vehicles.
My car is 14.71 feet in length, and having measured the gap in
front of my car using google maps, I can see there were at least
14.34 feet clear ahead of me when measured perpendicularly to
Lea Bridge Road:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/PkJACuT.png
As I was travelling at an angle, there was actually ample space
to accommodate my vehicle without colliding with the car ahead:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/tz88try.png
It follows that I did not stop in the box junction because my
path was impeded by stationary vehicles, rather I stopped
because I chose not to obstruct the pedestrian crossing. It is a
common myth perpetuated by councils that stopping in a box
junction for any reason is a contravention, but this is not the
case: it is only a contravention if the vehicle stops because it
cannot proceed owing to the presence of stationary vehicles.
Where a vehicle stops for some other reason, whatever that
reason might be, the contravention alleged cannot occur.
It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
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