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#Post#: 15840--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: NotFair
Date: February 18, 2024, 4:36 pm
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As expected, NoR has now been received (more than 5 months after
submission of reps).
The only line refuting the matter of my appeal says that the
'road is TfL property.' I don't think that makes any of the
appeal reasoning invalid, and think I should take this to a
tribunal.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/By2jHVF/PCN.jpg
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#Post#: 15852--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 18, 2024, 6:05 pm
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Well, it is a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals
as there is no re-offer of the discount, plus their extremely
tardy response to your reps. 5 months is really quite
ridiculous, and you should emphasise this in your reps to LT.
Yes, it is LLA & TfL Act 2003, and not the TMA 2004, which
imposes 56 days max for response. Any adudicator worth his pay
should regard 5 months to respond as abuse of process.
#Post#: 15880--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: February 19, 2024, 5:27 am
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I bet Mr cp8759 would love this job. ;)
#Post#: 15902--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: NotFair
Date: February 19, 2024, 1:41 pm
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They have reoffered the discount but the wording in the letter
is hopelessly confusing.
Nevertheless, the other points stand. I'll take it to a
tribunal.
#Post#: 24013--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: NotFair
Date: May 27, 2024, 9:36 am
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The adjudicator didn't find either point in my favour. Very
disappointing and means that TfL now have a precedent with
respect to what I feel is clearly an illegal box junction.
--
--- Quote ---
>
> The issue of this appeal is whether the said vehicle entered
and stopped within the box junction there owing to the presence
of another stationary vehicle. It is a contravention if a person
causes their vehicle to enter a box junction so that the vehicle
has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of
stationary vehicles.
>
> To stop means to come to a stand as in the course of a
journey, to halt or to cease moving.
>
> The contravention was created by statute: Paragraph 11 of Part
7, Schedule 9 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016 (TSRGD).
>
> The contravention does not apply to any person
>
> a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than
a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning
right: and
>
> b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is
prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or
other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a
right turn.
>
> The appellant has stated the markings need to be removed from
the location; Ealing Village is not a road. Transport for London
responded to the appellant’s representations after the 56 days
deadline.
>
> I have considered fully the representations of both parties
and I have examined carefully the video evidence provided by the
local authority.
>
> Did the appellant cause their vehicle to stop on the box
junction because of the presence of another stationary vehicle?
>
> I am satisfied by it that the appellant’s vehicle followed
another vehicle onto the box junction. The first vehicle stopped
and it prevented the appellant’s vehicle from clearing the box
junction. Consequently, the appellant’s vehicle entered and
stopped on the box junction owing to the presence of another
stationary vehicle in front of it in circumstances other than
the one permitted statutory exemption. Crucially the appellant’s
vehicle did not wait outside the entrance to the box junction
before entering the box junction. Had it done so and waited for
a definite clear space there would have been no contravention. .
It is not uncommon for traffic to proceed in a line onto the box
junction but this is what box junctions try to prevent.
>
> The appellant has asserted that the contravention did not
occur.
>
> As stated, had the appellant’s vehicle waited for clear space
before entering the box junction then it would not have been
affected by whatever occurred on the other side, such as a
change of colour of traffic lights or pedestrians crossing the
road or vehicles suddenly stopping.
>
> A Box Junction is defined in Paragraph 11(6) of Part 7,
Schedule 9 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016 (TSRGD). It means the area of carriageway marked
with yellow cross-hatching at a junction between two or more
roads on which there has been placed the road marking shown in
the diagram at item 25 of Schedule 9, part 6 of the TSRGD.
>
> I am satisfied that the box junction in this case complies
with paragraph 5 of Part 8 of the TSRGD.
>
> A road is defined by section 142 of the Road Traffic
Regulation Act 1984 as any length of highway, or of any other
road to which the public has access. I am not persuaded that the
roads are not roads within the said definition.
>
> I must find that the local authority was entitled to issue the
penalty notice. The penalty notice in this case was issued under
Section 6 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for
London Act 2003. The local authority is entitled to issue the
penalty notice to the person appearing to them to be the owner
of the vehicle concerned.
>
> Paragraph 1(7) of Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities
Act 2003 states that it shall be the duty of the local authority
to consider the appellant’s representations and serve on that
person notice of their decision.
>
> There is no statutory time limit, within which the local
authority must serve the notice.
>
> I am satisfied that the penalty notice expressed the correct
penalty amount, a fixed penalty, fixed by law. It did not
therefore exceed the relevant amount in all the circumstances of
the case.
>
> It follows that I must refuse the appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 24027--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: MrChips
Date: May 27, 2024, 10:43 am
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I'm very surprised at this outcome. The London Tribunals own
website emphasises "The adjudicators have decided that a
Enforcement Authority should normally respond to representations
within 3 months."
Did you emphasise this point and that Ealing Village is a
private and gated?
Case number is 2240112496 if anyone wants to look in more
detail.
#Post#: 24061--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 27, 2024, 11:52 am
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Seems to me that a review should be requested, as the
adjudicator has totally ignored advice on their own website
which woul encourage anybody reading it, to register an appeal
if a response is delayed well over that period, plus ignored the
fact that the road in question is gated, so not a public road.
#Post#: 24108--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: meaty
Date: May 27, 2024, 2:26 pm
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Agreed, the public clearly does not have access to a private
gated road. No evidence that point was considered.
#Post#: 24123--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: MrChips
Date: May 27, 2024, 3:09 pm
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[member=325]NotFair[/member] did you attend the appeal or was it
done on the papers?
#Post#: 24183--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: May 27, 2024, 6:31 pm
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[member=325]NotFair[/member] I did offer to represent you but I
never heard back from you. I'm willing to try a review if you're
interested in still pursuing this, but I have to say you've made
it significantly harder by trying to argue the appeal yourself.
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