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#Post#: 3923--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: MrChips
Date: August 27, 2023, 6:04 am
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I'm away on holiday at the moment so can't wait check myself but
I think I've seen previous cases here and there might be an
argument that the side road (Ealing village) isn't a road to
which the public have unfettered access, and hence isn't a
'road' under the yellow box junction regulations.
If that's right, there's no contravention in spite of the video
showing a clear entering and stopping due to stationary
vehicles...
#Post#: 3924--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: MrChips
Date: August 27, 2023, 6:11 am
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Ealing Village is a private road and has space for 132 vehicles.
There currently is not a parking permit system. Instead everyone
is encouraged to co-operate in a voluntary approach to moderate
the use of parking on the estate.
(From a quick Google search)
#Post#: 3978--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 28, 2023, 6:26 am
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--- Quote from: NotFair link ---
>
> Finally have the DVD.
>
> Seems bang to rights.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not if you look at the "junction" from here:
HTML https://goo.gl/maps/QE89gHurxd74qC8B9
This is easy peasy:
[indent]
Dear Transport for London,
The alleged contravention did not occur, and the box junction
markings need to be removed from this location. This is because
Ealing Village is not a road to which the public have access, it
is a gated drive to which there is no public access. It follows
that the box junction markings are not at the junction of two or
more roads, so no contravention can ever occur at this location.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
[member=7]mrmustard[/member], one for next year's objections
against TFL's accounts.
#Post#: 3981--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: MrChips
Date: August 28, 2023, 6:41 am
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Various sources highlight this as one of the most penalised box
junctions in London, so would be good to get a decision that
it's not valid.
Prior to my previous post I did search through multiple
successful tribunal decisions at this location and none were
based on this argument. Perhaps TFL tactically do not contest
where this ground is raised?
#Post#: 3984--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 28, 2023, 7:38 am
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--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> Prior to my previous post I did search through multiple
successful tribunal decisions at this location and none were
based on this argument. Perhaps TFL tactically do not contest
where this ground is raised?
>
--- End Quote ---
My suspicion is that nobody has ever raised it.
#Post#: 3989--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: MrChips
Date: August 28, 2023, 8:20 am
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In case there's anything useful on there, here's the case I was
recalling from pepipoo
Also involved a company secretary
HTML http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t135162.html
#Post#: 3991--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 28, 2023, 8:44 am
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[member=43]MrChips[/member] that case was a case of a private
individual where the name field was swapped out for "the company
secretary".
For instance if your car is registered to Mr Chips with DVLA at
123 High Street, and TFL sends a PCN to "The Company Secretary,
123 High Street", that PCN is obviously invalid.
If on the other hand TFL send a PCN to The Company Secretary,
Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd, 123 High Street (as they
frequently do, even though they never get paid), that's
perfectly acceptable because they've served it on an actual
company.
In this case the car is registered to a limited company and the
limited company has been served, so none of the issues in the
case you've highlighted apply. Also see sections 1139
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/1139
and
1140 of the Companies Act 2006
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/1140.
#Post#: 4002--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: NotFair
Date: August 28, 2023, 11:39 am
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Many thanks everyone.
I didn't realise the "junction" in question is not actually at
the Hanger Lane roundabout. I posted "Hanger Lane" because
that's what the PCN says!
In addition to the Pepipoo thread referenced by MrChips, I've
found this website which references the exact same yellow box as
an example of a non-junction:
HTML https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/1-the-box
#Post#: 4004--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 28, 2023, 11:55 am
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It seems the TFL website is undergoing maintenance so you
probably won't be able to make representations until tomorrow.
When you do, don't forget to get a screenshot of the
confirmation screen.
#Post#: 4014--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL Yellow Box - Hanger Lane
DIR By: NotFair
Date: August 28, 2023, 3:39 pm
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I have embellished the content slightly, in the hope that some
more detail might increase the 1% chance that TfL won't force
this to a Tribunal.
--- Quote ---
> The alleged contravention did not occur, and the box junction
markings need to be removed from this location.
>
> Schedule 7, Part 9, 11 (6) of the Traffic Signs Regulations
and General Directions 2016 sets out the permitted locations for
yellow boxes. In addition Section 192 of the Road Traffic Act
1988 defines a "road" as: “any highway and any other road to
which the public has access”. Ealing Village is not a road to
which the public have access; it is a gated drive to which there
is no public access.
>
> The box junction markings are not at the junction of two or
more roads. Thus, no contravention can ever occur at this
location.
--- End Quote ---
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