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#Post#: 35849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Mamite001
Date: September 5, 2024, 6:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good morning all. Today (5 Sep) my representation
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/15YeEXxse2heAAwb-7u7WWzbBzoXdIRyt/view<br
/>(send 15 Aug) has been rejected
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nPpaJQe-IfkcisqyrxnySAQdBI3H4PlZ/view.<br
/>Please could you advise if I should go to tribunal?
Many thanks in advance. RN
Notes:
1) The letter
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nPpaJQe-IfkcisqyrxnySAQdBI3H4PlZ/view<br
/>says: 'We have carefully considered your comments and (where
appropriate) the evidence you have supplied', but there are 0
views for the youtube video
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YG1_uGgQsfMF2uJfGvTzwTeHthH7raUE/view<br
/>I uploaded as supporting evidence.
2) The letter
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nPpaJQe-IfkcisqyrxnySAQdBI3H4PlZ/view<br
/>says: 'We are satisfied that the signs at this location
conforms
... and clearly warn motorists of the restriction', but the sign
is still obscured today, so it's unlikely that Barnet visited
the location to investigate. I can only speculate that when
Barnet says 'We are satisfied that the signs... clearly warn',
it refers to the signs that appear in Barnet's photo/video
evidence
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CH2HlLI_V8SKUQTYu9zjWSBqMEibithz/view<br
/>(on the mouth of Moss Hall Grove), rather than the obscured
warning signs that I refer to in my representation (located
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jJj5mPkCtDarK_yGOHDbPERY0Yr2RICz/view<br
/>~70m before the right turn into Moss Hall Grove).
#Post#: 36267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: tanster
Date: September 9, 2024, 5:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Marmite, I have the same issue and received three pcns for
the same offence as two signs were obscured by the turn into
Moss Hall Grove and I wasn't aware of the new restriction. I
included photographs showing how the overhanging tree obscured
the sign but all rejected by the council. Have you gone to
tribunal?
#Post#: 36309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Mamite001
Date: September 10, 2024, 5:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good morning tanster - my deadline to appeal is 1 October and I
am still undecided. I've messaged you directly to ask for more
details of your rejections (but if you're happy to share then
please post publically on this thread). Thanks a lot. RN
#Post#: 36647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Mamite001
Date: September 12, 2024, 12:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello all. There were no replies to my post about Barnet's
rejection so I'm writing again with more details.
To summarise: I actually received 2 PCNs for 2 separate but
identical contraventions - turning right from Nether Street to
Moss Hall Grove and entering a Pedestrian Zone (link to map
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XeZECeiPL_2PRCusxzlq1QKYub_kQNSc/view).<br
/>The warning sign located ~70m before the turn was partially
obscured by vegetation. The advice on the forum was to
challenge, so I submitted 2 identical representations, linking
to 2 separate but identical youtube videos
HTML https://youtu.be/tb7zI656Q-whttps://youtu.be/tb7zI656Q-w
(so
that views could be monitored for each representation).
In the representations (link here
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/15YeEXxse2heAAwb-7u7WWzbBzoXdIRyt/view)<br
/>I wrote that while driving north on Nether Street, the driver
clearly saw the 1st warning sign (link to photo
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bQPJ4Cq9xx5jaTuod7-aBlcTp4ZwrjRw/view),<br
/>which warns about the 1st right-turn to Essex Park (link to
map
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XeZECeiPL_2PRCusxzlq1QKYub_kQNSc/view),<br
/>but he didn't see the 2nd warning sign (link to photo
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RWlslNWKyZJO_E0gF0fwOQqalZb36uV6/view)<br
/>which warns about the next right-turn to Moss Hall Grove
because
is was obscured. By the time the driver turned right into Moss
Hall Grove and saw the signs at the entrance of the pedestrian
zone it was too late (link to photo
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FgmZ-WfuKSMBqPUE5YW8HI1oMkQCqSLi/view).<br
/>I then quoted LATOR, and asked for the PCN to be cancelled.
Barnet rejected both representations (link to rejection letter
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/18FAGgLRnEiOAYRJL4DbTfY_hPF8psujC/view,<br
/>please download to read clearly). They chose (presumably on
purpose) not to address the issue of the obscured warning sign
at all. Instead, they wrongly stated that I had claimed that the
sign on the right at the entrance to Moss Hall Grove was
obscured, and stated that as these signs are not obscured
therefore the contraventions did occur. Quote:
1st rejection: 'In your response, you stated that, the signage
on the right hand side of the road is obscured...'
2nd rejection: 'There are clear and compliant signs on display
at the entrance to the road...'
Barnet also said that they considered the evidence, but the
youtube videos have 0 views
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YG1_uGgQsfMF2uJfGvTzwTeHthH7raUE/view.<br
/>Quote:
1st rejection: 'After careful consideration of the evidence put
before us...'
2nd rejection: 'We have carefully considered your comments and
(where apropriate) the evidence you have supplied...'
I now face the decision whether to go to tribunal. The case, as
far as I can figure, is not clear-cut of inadequate signage and
the decision could go wither way.
Your advice on how to proceed is greatly appreciated. Many
thanks. RN
#Post#: 36671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 12, 2024, 3:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry as I have been busy. I will give this my attention
tomorrow as I have two appeals to write forthwith.
#Post#: 36975--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 16, 2024, 3:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
PM sent. NOR is dated 3rd September so the 28 days start from
5th. The whole NOR please.
#Post#: 37011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Mamite001
Date: September 16, 2024, 6:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is the first NOR with my comments: page 1
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LlslHKq84Tew714fqYcF1CK_dZzwhwpd/view,<br
/>page 2
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1px8frYYgvlodpBmyd6EUt9vcE49zFdFB/view,<br
/>page 3
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/12oyOOYhBEeneDjQBCeD-0m9oYUv0dbfn/view.
And the second NOR: page 1
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/17rtXxOoP2t2AWdC8bldk7gegmrLPsmQi/view,<br
/>page 2
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zxjpGQGJ8pj_ZqGDEn1I57LyYZB56jUA/view,<br
/>page 3
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yYarYr6HxJihqYSf3VDwR8NNOxpt9YZf/view.
Only the warning sign is partially obscured !
It's important to understand the layout and the signs involved -
please see my detailed explanation in my last post.
#Post#: 37274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Mamite001
Date: September 17, 2024, 7:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Update: I've paid both PCNs and will not be going to tribunal.
#Post#: 37293--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 18, 2024, 4:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for informing us.
#Post#: 37296--------------------------------------------------
Re: Barnet, code 53J entering in pedestrian zone, Nether St
right turn into Moss Hall Grove
DIR By: Mamite001
Date: September 18, 2024, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Your help may be better directed to tanster here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/barnet-nether-street-into-moss-hall-grove-failing-to-comply-with-restriction-on-/msg36271/#msg36271,<br
/>as he has chosen to go to tribunal on 4th Nov with 3 PCNs
identical to mine.
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