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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 2538--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 3, 2023, 4:13 pm
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Delete point 2 (which is entirely wrong), and amend point 3 to
refer to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
(Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions)
(England) Regulations 2022.
The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England)
General Regulations 2007 were abolished last year.
#Post#: 2540--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: NotFair
Date: August 3, 2023, 4:24 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> Delete point 2 (which is entirely wrong), and amend point 3 to
refer to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions
(Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions)
(England) Regulations 2022.
>
> The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England)
General Regulations 2007 were abolished last year.
>
--- End Quote ---
Many thanks.
I lifted point 2 from the known flaws spreadsheet (and
concurrent Pepipoo thread). Is this not correct at all?
#Post#: 2640--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 5, 2023, 12:22 pm
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--- Quote from: NotFair link ---
>
> I lifted point 2 from the known flaws spreadsheet (and
concurrent Pepipoo thread). Is this not correct at all?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's been overturned in Christopher Phipps v NEPP - Essex County
Council (IF00014-2211, 17 February 2023)
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1w5IDGdNrhpEmwMCKuu5xWvKmDiial3se&export=inline<br
/>and that was upheld on review in Christopher Phipps v NEPP -
Essex County Council (IF00014-2211, 24 March 2023)
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1AV1NlcBxcEBvYFAzh4lMxYUm_JnwVfCQ&export=inline,<br
/>the point as first argued was that it's not a civil
contravention at all under any Act.
I've updated the PCN spreadsheet to reflect the current
position.
#Post#: 2652--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: NotFair
Date: August 5, 2023, 1:13 pm
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Thanks. I submitted informal reps earlier today with TMA2004
point removed, as suggested.
Let's see how it goes.
#Post#: 2945--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 9, 2023, 7:29 am
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For later reference: The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Haringey)
Red Route Consolidation Traffic Order 2007 A1 GLA Road (Archway
Road) Variation Order 2013.
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Q6QD0NRwz33tvREddRmnMHFo78jbqzS0
#Post#: 4167--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: NotFair
Date: August 30, 2023, 3:55 pm
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TfL have rejected informal reps (as is the norm for them).
They really haven't responded properly to any of the points
raised in the appeal, and I think there could be a 'failure to
consider'-esque argument now.
The rejection letter states an amount due (£80, which is 50% of
the full amount) but doesn't say anything about how long this
offer is valid for. The text at the bottom of the first page
explaining timelines ("28 days from the PCN") is also unclear
and quite confusing in the context of a rejection letter.
A complication here is that this is a lease vehicle, and the
lease company's annoying policy is to automatically pay up on
receipt of an NTO. Can I submit formal reps before an NTO is
issued?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/202gqW9/Whats-App-Image-2023-08-30-at-15-25-03.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/crbxSr3/Tf-Lrejection2.png
#Post#: 4186--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: August 30, 2023, 6:30 pm
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No, you need to tell the lease company to make representations
against the Notice to Owner on the basis that the vehicle was
leased to you. What's the name of the lease company?
I can provide some draft wording for you to send to them if that
would help.
#Post#: 4195--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: NotFair
Date: August 31, 2023, 3:41 am
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That would be helpful, thank you.
Can I oblige the lease company to follow this process?
The lease company is Tusker Direct.
#Post#: 4361--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: September 4, 2023, 4:56 pm
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Here you go:
[indent]
Dear Tusker Direct,
You will shortly receive a Notice to Owner from Transport for
London in respect of PCN GF83565073, I intend to challenge
liability for this penalty charge.
When you receive the Notice to Owner please challenge it on the
ground that you are a lease company and you have leased the
vehicle to me, Transport for London will then cancel your Notice
to Owner and issue another one directly to me. With penalties
issued by local authorities, payment extinguishes the right to
appeal, so you must not pay or you will deprive me of the right
to appeal this penalty.
If you ignore this and chose to pay the penalty rather than
transfer liability to me, I will consider this to be a
self-inflicted loss (as you are not obliged to pay and can
transfer liability instead) and as such I will not be
reimbursing you.
Please take this as my explicit consent for you to share my
details with Transport for London, please feel free to get in
touch should you have any queries about this.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
If it's a personal lease rather than a business to business one,
we can add some other bits around the Consumer Rights Act 2015
(that basically forces their hand).
#Post#: 4411--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL red route - largely illegible PCN (thermal paper) &
known flaws?
DIR By: NotFair
Date: September 5, 2023, 8:02 am
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Thanks.
They've advised me of their process - apparently I have to call
them as soon as they tell me they've received it, to ask them to
transfer liability, instead of pay it.
Is it worth adding anything to the reps already submitted?
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