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#Post#: 32670--------------------------------------------------
Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: C_H_R_I_S
Date: August 8, 2024, 6:27 am
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I literally looked at my phone while on a red light and a
cyclist got up to my car and started telling me he could report
me for that..
1 week later I get a letter from the police:
Use a handheld phone / device while driving motor vehicle on the
road.
What can I do to get out of this?
A fine or points could cost me big long term with insurance
companies.
is there anything I can do to lessen this burden?
Photo attached
HTML https://i.ibb.co/DMjzQxS/fine.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/YdVPhzq
EDIT : Car engine was also off due to stop start technology.
EDIT 2:
HTML https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/19-07-31-DPP-v-Barreto-Ref.-CO2702019-Judgment.pdf
This is a case where they let the driver off while FILMING!
because it wasnt a communication use of the phone.
In my case I looked at a text message but did not respond to it.
#Post#: 32673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 8, 2024, 6:35 am
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Not much, it seems, you admit using a hand held phone. The last
element is 'while driving' and courts are currently convicting
those sat at lights/in traffic on the basis that that is while
driving the car (it not being while parked). People have tried
a defence of 'not driving' in the magistrates court and failed,
so far no-one has taken a case high enough to set case law
either way.
Government advice (NOT LAW) is that stopped at a light is
driving in fact it's the first point!
Probably the only lessening of the burden is to accept any out
of court offer, going to court will cost you more, but it will
still be 6 points and increased premiums. Hopefully you passed
your first test more than 2 years ago.
HTML https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law
#Post#: 32680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: slapdash
Date: August 8, 2024, 6:52 am
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What exactly did you do with the phone and where was it whilst
you did this.
#Post#: 32697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: August 8, 2024, 8:23 am
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EDIT 2:
HTML https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/19-07-31-DPP-v-Barreto-Ref.-CO2702019-Judgment.pdf
This is a case where they let the driver off while FILMING!
because it wasnt a communication use of the phone.
Just to clarify, the case of Ramsey Barreto led to a change in
the law.
Mr Barreto was caught using his mobile phone whilst driving. He
was filming he scene of an accident as he drove past. At his
trial in the Magistrates' Court he claimed that he had passed
the phone to his son who carried out the filming. The court
disbelieved him and he was convicted and then appealed to the
Crown Court on the same basis.
At his appeal that court also disbelieved that his son had been
using the phone. But Mr Barreto's lawyer drew to the attention
of the court a recent decision of the Crown Court on an appeal
against conviction for a similar offence. In that case the
motorist, while driving, had been using his mobile phone to
listen to music which was stored in the phone. He demonstrated
how he changed the music tracks on his phone which he held in
his hand, using his thumb. The issue was whether that conduct
constituted using a mobile phone. The court ruled that it did
not because it did not involve any external communication. The
Crown Court sitting in Mr Barreto's appeal adopted the same
reasoning in his case and concluded that using a mobile phone to
take a photograph or film did not amount to “using” a hand-held
mobile. Accordingly his conviction was quashed. This was
entirely due to the wording of the law which said tha for the
offence o be made out, the phone must be used "..“making or
receiving a call or performing any other interactive
communication function.”. Filming using the phone did no match
that requirement.
The DPP appealed to the High Court by way of a "case stated"
claiming that the regulation prohibited all use of a hand-held
mobile phone while driving. Mr Barreto claimed that it only
prohibited activities which involved "interactive
communication".
The High Court found in favour of Mr Barreto and his appeal was
upheld.
That decision was handed down in July 2019 and in March 2022 the
law was amended. It now prevents "using" a mobile phone for any
purpose. The legislation provides a non-exhaustive list of
activities considered o be "using" a phone and if there is any
dispute on that question it would be for a court to decide
whether the phone was being used or not.
#Post#: 32704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 8, 2024, 9:40 am
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> The legislation provides a non-exhaustive list of activities
considered o be "using" a phone
>
--- End Quote ---
That list, looking at a text message is certainly 'use' for the
purposes here.
--- Quote ---
> (c)in paragraphs (1) to (3) the word “using” includes the
following—
> (i)illuminating the screen;
> (ii)checking the time;
> (iii)checking notifications;
> (iv)unlocking the device;
> (v)making, receiving, or rejecting a telephone or internet
based call;
> (vi)sending, receiving or uploading oral or written content;
> (vii)sending, receiving or uploading a photo or video;
> (viii)utilising camera, video, or sound recording
functionality;
> (ix)drafting any text;
> (x)accessing any stored data such as documents, books, audio
files, photos, videos, films, playlists, notes or messages;
> (xi)accessing an application;
> (xii)accessing the internet.”.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 32745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: August 8, 2024, 3:54 pm
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--- Quote from: C_H_R_I_S link ---
>
> EDIT : Car engine was also off due to stop start technology.
--- End Quote ---
Not relevant in any way, as the legislation talks about
"driving", and not whether the engine is running or not. It also
talks about "using" the phone...
--- Quote from: C_H_R_I_S link ---
>
> In my case I looked at a text message but did not respond to
it.
>
--- End Quote ---
... which that most certainly is.
#Post#: 35954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: C_H_R_I_S
Date: September 6, 2024, 4:32 pm
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SO The police responded but I would say with clerical errors
given it doesnt really mention my offence and instead talks
about seemingly unrelated information>
Is there anything I can do against this??
RESPONSE FROM POLICE:
CONDITIONAL OFFER OF FIXED PENALTY
We have evidence that you were the driver of the motor vehicle
XXXXXXXX at the time of the alleged offence London on 30/07/2024
at 08:40 hours Contrary to regulation 110(1) of the Road
Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 41D of
the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic
Offenders Act 1988.
Speed / Endorsable offences carry a maximum penalty of £1000 and
6 penalty points or £2500 and 6 penalty points (motorway
offences). Traffic signal offences carry a maximum penalty of
£1000 and 3 penalty points.
If it is your wish to contest this matter in court you may do
so. If you do not wish to contest the matter then it may be
possible to deal with it by a fixed penalty of £200.00 and the
endorsement of 6 penalty points on your licence, by post without
the need for court proceedings.
If you wish to be considered for a fixed penalty please read the
instructions in Step 1 and Step 2 overleaf and follow them
carefully. YOU HAVE 28 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS NOTICE TO
COMPLY WITH THIS CONDITIONAL OFFER. No proceedings will be
instituted against you during that period, but failure to
respond to this notice within that period will lead to
proceedings. In those circumstances you will have an opportunity
to have a court hearing of this case.
J Snell
On behalf of the Commissioner of Police for the Metropolitan
Police
Important Notes
PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS CONDITIONAL OFFER IS ONLY VALID FOR 28
DAYS FROM THE DATE ON THIS LETTER.
** YOU MUST ONLY USE THE OFFICIAL PAYMENT METHODS AS STATED
OVERLEAF **
TO ACCEPT THIS CONDITIONAL OFFER
If you wish to accept this conditional offer of fixed penalty,
you can discharge liability to conviction by payment and
providing your driving licence details. If you do not fulfil the
requirements in Part 1 and Part 2 on Pages 3 and 4 within 2 days
of the date of this notice, any payment made may be refunded or
returned to you and you will then be prosecuted If your driving
licence has eight or less penalty points endorsed in the last 3
years you can accept this offer.
The address details are provided in Part 2 on Page 4. DO NOT
SEND ANY MONEY OR LICENCE TO POLICE
TO DECLINE THIS CONDITIONAL OFFER OR CONTEST THE MATTER
If you wish to decline or are unable to accept this offer, you
can either write to us notifying us of your intention or alterna
do nothing. Arrangements will then be made to the matter to
proceed to court.
This notice is issued under sec. 34 Road Traffic Act 1991 and
sec. 75 and 77 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
This is all because a crazy cyclist saw me look at my phone at a
red light! Unbelievable
#Post#: 35955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: September 6, 2024, 4:37 pm
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Nothing has changed in the situation.
Even if the offer was wholly wrong it doesn’t provide a defence
to the charge.
A bit unfair calling someone crazy for reporting a crime, it
happens all the time.
#Post#: 35956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: September 6, 2024, 4:52 pm
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--- Quote ---
> SO The police responded but I would say with clerical errors
given it doesnt really mention my offence...
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it does:
"We have evidence that you were the driver of the motor vehicle
XXXXXXXX at the time of the alleged offence London on 30/07/2024
at 08:40 hours Contrary to regulation 110(1) of the Road
Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, section 41D of
the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic
Offenders Act 1988."
It then goes on to give you details of their offer of a fixed
penalty.
#Post#: 35985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Used phone at red light ( cyclist footage)
DIR By: Ziggyplayedguitar2
Date: September 7, 2024, 5:51 am
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Looking at the List that The Rookie supplied....
Using Waze or Google Maps could lead to a conviction.Where do we
stand on Navigation with Mobile Phones ......Millions of us do
it everyday??
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