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       #Post#: 2096--------------------------------------------------
       PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: Simon4611
       Date: July 29, 2023, 5:48 am
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       New Member
       Group: Members
       Posts: 3
       Joined: 13 Dec 2022
       Member No.: 118,586
       Our Motorhome was parked in a council car park and got a PCN.
       The sign (see photo) was to me very ambiguous as it suggested
       that overnight sleeping in Motorhomes or caravans was not
       allowed and not that Motorhomes were banned from the car park.
       Our Motorhome is small and easily fitted into a normal car space
       (see photo).
       The PCN was issued under Code 91 ‘parked in a car park or area
       not designated for that class of vehicle’.
       The car park is in England but my wife and I live in Scotland.
       Appreciate any thoughts on the legitimacy of this as it seems
       harsh to us and others as there were several other Motorhomes
       parked up there.
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 2100--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: spaceman
       Date: July 29, 2023, 6:20 am
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       I rather think the clue is in the punctuation.
       #Post#: 2108--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: Fifebuoy
       Date: July 29, 2023, 7:12 am
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       --- Quote from: spaceman link ---
       >
       > I rather think the clue is in the punctuation.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, if the sign read " Red, Green and Blue cars not allowed in
       this car park" you wouldn't assume that only cars that were both
       red and blue were not welcome.
       #Post#: 2143--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: July 29, 2023, 3:08 pm
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       Please give us the number plate, and post the rear of the PCN.
       Guidance on posting images is here:
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
       In the meantime I'll get hold of the parking places order.
       GSV:
  HTML https://goo.gl/maps/cPT7iDZvSmkvMv669
       How did you pay to park?
       #Post#: 2159--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: Simon4611
       Date: July 30, 2023, 3:10 am
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       Registration number: SN64BEU
       I used pay to park app.
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 2175--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: July 30, 2023, 6:30 am
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       Council photos don't show any signage at all:
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/DIAkG1r.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/xTwQVuh.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/F5tpY36.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/Aoe8wA7.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/XeOzH1i.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/XtDKqLw.png
       I suspected you had paid on the app, this means there would have
       been no need to go to the main terms and condition board next to
       the pay and display machine.
       Did you get the location code from within the app, or from one
       of these
  HTML https://goo.gl/maps/rHBmei1aHti86a7AA
       signs?
       #Post#: 2180--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: Simon4611
       Date: July 30, 2023, 6:58 am
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       The location came up on the app and as you say I didn’t see the
       t&c on the board until after I got the ticket when I went to
       find out what the problem was.
       #Post#: 2184--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: July 30, 2023, 7:35 am
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       This is a very simple case, draft reps:
       [indent]
       Dear City of York Council,
       I challenge liability for PCN YC9356319A on the ground that the
       alleged contravention did not occur, owing to inadequate
       signage. When I parked my vehicle I used the app to pay, and I
       did not see any signage indicating restrictions on motorhomes.
       I note that the signs dotted around the car park which carry the
       location code, such as this one
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/j5KOBCm.png
       do not carry any information about restrictions on motorhomes.
       When I paid on the app, no warning message or other indication
       was given that my vehicle was not permitted.
       Therefore owing to inadequate signage, the contravention did not
       occur.
       Yours faithfully,
       [/indent]
       Pop this into a PDF and upload it to the council website as an
       attachment, don't forget to get a screenshot of the confirmation
       screen.
       #Post#: 2195--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: guest179
       Date: July 30, 2023, 11:13 am
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       Which rather implies that all conditions of parking must be
       conveyed by a PbP service. Unfortunately there is no regulatory
       requirement for this and IMO this argument would not succeed at
       adjudication.
       Furthermore, as the OP knows, they did see and read the
       noticeboard placed prominently at the car park entrance:
       Our Motorhome was parked in a council car park and got a PCN.
       The sign (see photo) was to me very ambiguous as it suggested
       that overnight sleeping in Motorhomes or caravans was not
       allowed and not that Motorhomes were banned from the car park..
       #Post#: 2197--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN for Motorhome parking
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: July 30, 2023, 11:27 am
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       The OP went on to clarify in reply#6
       --- Quote ---
       > The location came up on the app and as you say I didn’t see
       the t&c on the board until after I got the ticket when I went to
       find out what the problem was.
       --- End Quote ---
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