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#Post#: 32275--------------------------------------------------
**BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording Advice
DIR By: LyHen
Date: August 5, 2024, 5:52 am
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Hello,
I am wondering if anyone would be able to offer any advice on
what the best wording/ reasoning would be to put on a PE2 form
to have the PCN re-issued?
I have received a letter from Bristow and Suitor notifying
enforcement action and know that I need to submit the PE2 and
PE3, but I am also aware that the Out of Time Request is often
rejected.
I don't have an evidential basis for this, as I just didn't
receive some of the correspondence that would have allowed me to
submit in time and I know that the council will say that they
have evidence of postage; so it would be considered delivered.
I sought advice from an independent parking appeals group, who
have said that they can get this through and reset for the tidy
sum of £160, but it seems a lot when I will still have to pay
the PCN when it's reissued. To that end, I may as well just pay
the bailiffs!
Just wondering if anyone here had any ideas, or loopholes that I
could enact before I give up £160.
I'm happy to pay on re-issuance, which is why I haven't uploaded
information pertaining to the contravention, but please let me
know if you'd like further information and I'll happily provide.
Thanks in advance!
#Post#: 32287--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 5, 2024, 8:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please post up PDF scans or photos of all pages of the bailiff's
Notice of Enforcement. Just redact your name and address, please
leave everything else visible. All as per the instructions in
the READ THIS FIRST - **
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of this forum.
#Post#: 32289--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 5, 2024, 8:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Please post up PDF scans or photos of all pages of the
bailiff's Notice of Enforcement. Just redact your name and
address, please leave everything else visible. All as per the
instructions in the READ THIS FIRST - **
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of this forum.
>
--- End Quote ---
Who is the registered keeper (RK) of the car? If it's you then
please find the V5c registration document for the car. Check
that the name and the address are correct and current? No typos
or anything odd? Don't just assume, please check.
Do you know the date of the alleged contravention? Was the V5c
RK address correct on that date?
#Post#: 32292--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 5, 2024, 8:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, the £160 offer is IMO a rip-off, particularly when you
consider that TEC officers' decisions are subjective. With TEC
the key issues are not of law IMO but whether a respondent's
(that's you) submission presents sufficient relevant believable
facts in support of their grounds.
To this end you absolutely MUST expand on:
I don't have an evidential basis for this, as I just didn't
receive some of the correspondence that would have allowed me to
submit in time
What docs did you receive, a simple timeline would suffice:
PCN - if served to vehicle ****
NTO/Enforcement Notice ****
Representations made, yes/no on *****
Notice of Rejection received/not received dated *****
Charge Certificate received yes/no, issue date *****
Order for Recovery received yes/no, dated *****.
The NoE will include a latest date for payment. I suggest you
pay at the NoE rate.
Why? Isn't this giving up?
No, it's not. Paying the NoE simply caps your liability and
avoids the staggering enforcement fee being added. It has NO
effect on the likelihood of success with an Out of Time
submission, none at all.
If your OOT succeeds then the compliance stage fee(£75) and
surcharged penalty are refunded and you're back to whatever
stage applies in respect of your grounds e.g. didn't receive the
NTO, made reps but didn't receive a reply etc.
#Post#: 32354--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 5, 2024, 4:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As others have mentioned, we need to review the relevant
documents.
Ensure your address on the Warrant of Control is current.
Contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) on 0300 123 1059
with your PCN number. During the security check, provide your
previous address postcode. If this postcode matches their
records, it indicates the Warrant of Control is invalid due to
an incorrect address.
Regarding the 'letter' from Bristow and Sutor, it's crucial to
determine if it is a Notice of Enforcement (NOE). If a change of
address does not apply, and you still require an NOE, request
Bristow and Sutor to complete an N215 Certificate of Service.
The N215 allows Royal Mail to investigate the delivery of the
NOE.
If Bristow and Sutor refuse to complete Form N215 or say that
regulations only require them to record the time they gave the
NOE, it strongly suggests you didn't get a NOE.
#Post#: 32356--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 5, 2024, 5:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Documents, please, documents !!
What statutory documents did you receive ?
- PCN
- Notice to Owner, (if for a parking PCN served to the car)
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery
If none of the above, then it does look as if your V5 needs to
be looked at. Most cases where an OP says the bailiffs are at
the door come down to failure to update the V5 after a change of
address. BTW, changing the driver licence address does NOT
update your V5.
#Post#: 32387--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: LyHen
Date: August 6, 2024, 4:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Documents, please, documents !!
>
> What statutory documents did you receive ?
> - PCN
> - Notice to Owner, (if for a parking PCN served to the car)
> - Charge Certificate
> - Order for Recovery
>
> If none of the above, then it does look as if your V5 needs to
be looked at. Most cases where an OP says the bailiffs are at
the door come down to failure to update the V5 after a change of
address. BTW, changing the driver licence address does NOT
update your V5.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry, I'm just working on getting these uploaded now. I didn't
realise I had replies and the notification button is now firmly
on!
#Post#: 32388--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: LyHen
Date: August 6, 2024, 4:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> [quote author=Enceladus link=topic=2720.msg32287#msg32287
date=1722863348]
> Please post up PDF scans or photos of all pages of the
bailiff's Notice of Enforcement. Just redact your name and
address, please leave everything else visible. All as per the
instructions in the READ THIS FIRST - **
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of this forum.
>
--- End Quote ---
Who is the registered keeper (RK) of the car? If it's you then
please find the V5c registration document for the car. Check
that the name and the address are correct and current? No typos
or anything odd? Don't just assume, please check.
Do you know the date of the alleged contravention? Was the V5c
RK address correct on that date?
[/quote]
RK is me and having checked the V5C, all details are correct.
#Post#: 32389--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: LyHen
Date: August 6, 2024, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, the £160 offer is IMO a rip-off, particularly when you
consider that TEC officers' decisions are subjective. With TEC
the key issues are not of law IMO but whether a respondent's
(that's you) submission presents sufficient relevant believable
facts in support of their grounds.
>
> To this end you absolutely MUST expand on:
>
> I don't have an evidential basis for this, as I just didn't
receive some of the correspondence that would have allowed me to
submit in time
>
> What docs did you receive, a simple timeline would suffice:
>
> PCN - if served to vehicle ****
> NTO/Enforcement Notice ****
> Representations made, yes/no on *****
> Notice of Rejection received/not received dated *****
> Charge Certificate received yes/no, issue date *****
> Order for Recovery received yes/no, dated *****.
>
> The NoE will include a latest date for payment. I suggest you
pay at the NoE rate.
>
> Why? Isn't this giving up?
>
> No, it's not. Paying the NoE simply caps your liability and
avoids the staggering enforcement fee being added. It has NO
effect on the likelihood of success with an Out of Time
submission, none at all.
>
> If your OOT succeeds then the compliance stage fee(£75) and
surcharged penalty are refunded and you're back to whatever
stage applies in respect of your grounds e.g. didn't receive the
NTO, made reps but didn't receive a reply etc.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am inclined to agree with you on both points. That the £160
offer is a bit of bump and also that paying the rate on the NoE,
whilst processing the OOT, may be the best course of action.
#Post#: 32392--------------------------------------------------
Re: **BAILIFF ACTION** - Southwark Council PCN - PE2 Wording
Advice
DIR By: LyHen
Date: August 6, 2024, 5:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=38]Enceladus[/member] My apologies for blindly skipping
over your very clearly laid out rules. I know it must get
frustrating to keep redirecting people😩.
I have attached a copy of the NoE.
I am the RK and have checked all the details and they are
accurate. I did receive the original PCN, but I cannot find it
anywhere😭. Sorry I don't have that to upload, but if I
find it I will.
I do remember that it was for driving through a bus gate at
Burbage Road, Dulwich.
So to confirm, I received the original PCN through the mail, but
nothing other than that.
I did not appeal this and then completely forgot about it's
existence until the NoE arrived.
I am inclined to agree with H C Anderson, on the £160 being a
rip off and that paying the NoE rate might be the best option
until OOT is processed.
Here is a link to the NoE documents:
HTML https://1drv.ms/f/c/eca044cc664b450b/EqIGcN1cITtCq4hjlHhbD8gBBmwHSM05TmozAZzORL4oaQ<br
/>
Apologies I couldn't embed them and for any duplication of text,
I'm having to move between my phone and computer.
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