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#Post#: 32129--------------------------------------------------
Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder only
bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: IHateUnfairPCNs
Date: August 3, 2024, 12:22 pm
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Google Maps Street view Location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/QcWuELg2skphzPQa6
HTML https://i.imgur.com/gLaqiEP.jpg
I was picking up an elderly person from a local mosque, who was
having a medical bowel incontinence emergency and saw that there
was absolutely no legal place to park at all near his location.
Therefore, I decided to park in this vacant bay and quickly try
to escort and pick him up. I do not initially want to go through
the hassle of acquiring a fit/sick note as I believe there are
two points I could appeal from, however if advised to so, I
will:
1.) As far as I am aware, vehicles in Newham are allowed 2
minutes to drop off and pick up passengers as *stated by their
own wording* in their cancellation policy document issued to
their CS department who deal with these appeals. I found this
document in the 'PCN spreadsheet' pinned on this site :
"In almost all locations (including loading bans & bus lanes),
vehicles are permitted to stop to pick up or set down
passengers. This is usually limited to 2 minutes except where
the person dropping off/picking up needs longer i.e. elderly,
suffering some form of disability, carrying heavy luggage or
shopping etc. In these circumstances the vehicle may wait for as
long as is necessary. The appellant must provide evidence in
support of this claim.... There is no exemption for picking
up/setting down on footway, at bus stops, pedestrian or school
crossings, zigzag markings or waiting for passengers to visit a
shop or emerge from buildings e.g. taxi or minicab driver
waiting for passenger visiting an ATM.
This does not mention anything about disabled *non-resident*
bays not being able to be used as an 'alighting point'.
Therefore, I ask, what kind of evidence is suitable for me to
prove that I was picking this elderly person up?
2.) As you may've already noticed, on the PCN, there is a
0-minute difference between Observation start time, and time of
contravention. According to newhamparkingpolicyproceedures.pdf
(a simple google search will provide you with this document), it
states in Appendix C that the observation time for code 40 is 2
minutes. Clearly, this wasn't followed and abides by '4.4 -
Observation Policy' in the same document. Also, in the
cancellation document on page 5/30, it states:
CEO Error - No/Incorrect Observation
The CEO failed to observe the vehicle in accordance with the
council’s observation policy or failed to record the first time
seen.
This option should be used where the CEO has failed to observe
the vehicle in accordance with the council’s observation policy
or failed to record the first time seen. One of the following
example’s may apply; A) It is a contravention where five minutes
observation should have been carried out but the CEO only
records 3 minutes. B) CEO fails to record the first time seen.
C) CEO fails to record the time he/she entered the street.
The question is, do I have a valid case and if so, please advise
me on how best to word it by either 1.) or 2.) to win the appeal
at the informal stage. Will they just say some BS like
'observation policy is not mandated by civil law' even though
the council self-admits in their own documents that it should be
followed or...?
P.S: I activated a 15 minute Free Parking Allocation via
MiPermit which was due to start at 13:37 however it is unclear
whether this FPA is able to be used on 'communal' Disabled Badge
Holder bays with a time limit, and fixed hours of operation as
it is not clearly prohibited nor is it clearly allowed on the
Newham Council website. Maybe this is the reason the CEO tried
to blag it in order to get his bonus for the week.
Thanks in advance!
#Post#: 32134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 3, 2024, 12:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Assisted boarding is an exemption but with Newham you will
probably have to provide evidence of need as to why the
passenger couldn't wait for you outside.
Observation time is just guidance and a CEO will issue a PCN if
nothing seems to be going on. How long did it take to get and
board the passenger?
I can't see any time stamps on the pics.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/zJgJ9CD/Screenshot-2024-08-03-at-19-06-43.png
#Post#: 32138--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: IHateUnfairPCNs
Date: August 3, 2024, 1:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
He is an elderly man who at the time was suffering from diarrhea
and had to use the toilet after the Friday Prayer. It is very
busy with over a 1000 attendees hence I had to go inside, look
for him and make sure he’s alright and well, and escort him out
(as he’s elderly). Don’t know what kind of evidence they would
want for that hence why I haven’t submitted anything at this
point
It took roughly 3 minutes and he was gone by the time I came
which was at 13:35. Had he followed the observation time policy,
he would’ve seen me coming but oh well. Also the cancellation
document says that Option A) is the scenario where observation
time was meant to be 5 mins (in my case: 2 mins with code 40)
but CEO gave 3 mins… leads to cancelled PCN according to them.
This is why I’m confused, I can easily get this PCN cancelled
with a sick note however I don’t want to go through that hassle
if there is a procedural impropriety, and would like someone to
help me draft ‘the perfect informal challenge’
#Post#: 32140--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 3, 2024, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Draft a polite request for cancellation based on assisted
boarding of a person with xxxx needs and nowhere else to wait
near briefly and say you must have just missed the CEO as you
were in and out in x minutes.
There's no point in having a go at observation time as that's
not what you are claiming an exemption for and it's not
something you can anyway.
Generally, assisted boarding/alighting takes as long as
necessary but no more.
Post it here first.
#Post#: 32889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: IHateUnfairPCNs
Date: August 10, 2024, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is a draft of my informal challenge, please help me word it
better or find any more standpoints on which to correctly appeal
the PCN from. I would favour a quick response by anyone as I
only have until 16th August to appeal this PCN within the
discount period.
'Hello, I write to you today explaining why I firmly believe
that this PCN was issued in error to my vehicle and why I
believe that it should be cancelled in lieu of my specific
circumstances, as well as a error committed by the CEO whilst
issuing the PCN to my car.
My itinerary for the day involved picking up an elderly person
(a friend of my father who has significant trouble with walking
and has diabetes. He also had diarrhea on that specific day). He
came to the mosque for Friday Prayers with another person and I
was tasked with picking him up and dropping him to his house. I
was planning on praying my Friday Prayers later in the day so I
only came to pick him up and drop him off.
I circled the entire surrounding area TWICE of the mosque in
question, Masjid Tauheed and could not find a single bay
unoccupied to pick him up from. (I have a Zone E permit which
allows me to wait/park in any resident/shared use bay). The only
bay that was available, was this specific Blue Badge bay.
I am aware that in Newham, vehicles are permitted to stop and
wait to pick up/drop off passengers for a total of 2 minutes, OR
*longer* if need be due to a disability/elderly age etc. I am
able to provide evidence in support of this claim, however it is
unclear what type of evidence is required to substantiate it,
therefore I will be omitting it temporarily for now. These rules
regarding alighting passengers is clearly stated in a publicly
available document which outlines the scenarios of incorrectly
issued PCN's in Newham. It also states that there isn't an
exemption under 'Picking up and setting down' should the
contravening codes be: 62,47,99,48 but my Contravention code is
40, which implies that I was perfectly and legally permitted to
wait for 2 minutes OR as long as necessary in that specific
disabled bay
I arrived at 13:35. I tried to locate a CEO within the vicinity
to explain my circumstances however they was not to be seen on
East Avenue, nor on the corner of High Street North. I then made
ways to assist my dad's elderly and disabled friend as due to
the extreme overcrowding in the Friday Prayers, I feared that he
would get lost and would not be able to find my car. Also, since
he was suffering from diarrhea, I needed to make sure that he
was OK and that I can safely escort him from the mosque to my
car swiftly and quickly to avoid getting a PCN.
However, upon arrival at 13:38, I had to my surprise been issued
a PCN and I was unable to find the CEO. On the PCN, the
observation time was 0 minutes i.e the CEO did not follow
council policy regarding Observation periods. This is clearly
set out in the Newham Parking Policy Procedures document under
sub-heading 4.4. It does say that there are some very serious
offences which do not warrant a observation period, however my
alleged offence does not fall under that as in Appendix C of the
same document, the observation time period for a contravention
code 40 offence is listed as '2 minutes'. Had CEO no.1462
followed standard council policy and waited these 2 minutes, He
would've seen me approaching my vehicle and I would have made my
circumstances clear then. Also, in the aforementioned document
regarding incorrectly issued PCN's, on Page 5/30, it states that
one of the cancellation options for these incorrect PCN's are
'CEO Error - No/incorrect Observation. Option A - It is a
contravention where 2 minutes observation should have been
carried out but the CEO in my case recorded 0 minutes
observation i.e none
I should also state that I had applied a 15-minute free parking
allocation just in case, and nowhere on MiPermit or Newham
Council website does it state that this is NOT allowed to be
used in a disabled *non-resident* bay or does it say that this
free parking allocation is ONLY for resident/shared use bays.
In light of this, I highly request that you cancel this PCN due
to CEO error and the fact that I was assisting a passenger with
boarding. Thank you
#Post#: 33379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: IHateUnfairPCNs
Date: August 14, 2024, 1:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I have got 2 days left to make an informal challenge within the
discount period. I'd really appreciate if someone could help me
out and check over.
#Post#: 33382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 14, 2024, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, it is a bit long, so I've cut it down a bit. I'm
also not sure what you mean by
:
--- Quote ---
> had applied a 15-minute free parking allocation just in case,
and nowhere on MiPermit or Newham Council website does it state
that this is NOT allowed to be used in a disabled *non-resident*
bay or does it say that this free parking allocation is ONLY for
resident/shared use bays.
>
--- End Quote ---
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <location>
I dispute liability for the above PCN, on the grounds that the
contravention did not occur, for the reason of boarding a
passenger.
In explanation, my itinerary for the day involved picking up an
elderly person (a friend of my father who has significant
trouble with walking and has diabetes. He also had diarrhea on
that specific day). He came to the mosque for Friday Prayers
with another person and I was tasked with picking him up and
dropping him at his house.
I am aware that the law permits vehicles to stop and wait to
pick up/drop off passengers, provided the time taken is
reasonable in the circumstances. Those circumstances can
include assisting disabled/elderly people and also children and
includes collecting them from a nearby location.
Arriving at 13:35, I parked and proceeded to the mosque to
collect and to assist my dad's elderly and disabled friend to my
car.
However, upon arrival back at the car with my passenger at
13:38, I had to my surprise been issued a PCN. On the PCN, the
observation time was shown as 0 minutes On inspection of the
Newham Parking Policy Procedures, it is clear that the CEO did
not follow council policy regarding Observation periods. This is
clearly set out in the Newham Parking Policy Procedures document
under sub-heading 4.4. It does say that there are some very
serious offences which do not warrant a observation period,
however my alleged offence does not fall under that as in
Appendix C of the same document, the observation time period for
a contravention code 40 offence is listed as '2 minutes'. Had
CEO no.1462 followed standard council policy and waited these 2
minutes, He would've seen me approaching my vehicle and I would
have made my circumstances clear then. Also, in the
aforementioned document regarding incorrectly issued PCN's, on
Page 5/30, it states that one of the cancellation options for
these incorrect PCN's are 'CEO Error - No/incorrect Observation.
Option A - It is a contravention where 2 minutes observation
should have been carried out but the CEO in my case recorded 0
minutes observation i.e none
I should also state that as a resident, I had obtained a
15-minute free parking allocation just in case, and nowhere on
MiPermit or Newham Council website does it state that this is
NOT allowed to be used in a disabled *non-resident* bay nor does
it say that this free parking allocation is ONLY for
resident/shared use bays.
In light of the above circumstances, I request that you cancel
this PCN because I was engaged in assisting a passenger with
boarding my car, and in addition, arrange to retrain your CEO in
the correct procedures for serving PCNs.
YOUrs faithfully
#Post#: 36494--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: IHateUnfairPCNs
Date: September 11, 2024, 12:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: I got a rejection letter from Newham Council, and the
person behind my appeal barely bothered to read my appeal in
detail as she mentions this (probably an automated/ready-made
copypasta paragraph. Please advise on next steps, and whether or
not I will still have the opportunity to pay the discounted
rate, even after a potential formal representation rejection.
What kind of hard evidence would I need to supply to prove my
circumstances, as the guidance she gave and the guidance of the
council is VERY vague??? Also, my legitimate point about the
incorrect observation time was not even acknowledged. She even
said (highlighted) that the CEO didn't note any exempt activity
during their observation... I wonder why that is lol. The CEO
gave 0 minutes observation time, which is against Newham's own
policy for disabled non-resident bays (2 minutes).
I am thinking of appealing formally, when the notice to owner
comes, under 'The contravention did not occur' reason. Is that
suitable? [attachurl=1]
#Post#: 36498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: IHateUnfairPCNs
Date: September 11, 2024, 1:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is the rejection letter, it failed to attach!
Here is the link for it:
HTML https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:de335904-b551-4351-b229-70cf3e793332
#Post#: 36510--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder
only bay - East Avenue E12
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 11, 2024, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well they are playing hard ball and will not reoffer the
discount as I read it. So you have to decide. I agree that the
rejection letter is a failure to consider. Can you provide proof
etc ?
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