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#Post#: 32066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: August 3, 2024, 5:09 am
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Picture of the empty bay
HTML https://i.imgur.com/uJCiT62.jpeg
#Post#: 32069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 3, 2024, 5:26 am
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I think the dual bays are supposed to be restricted to disabled
drivers also charging EVs but could be wrong and the signage is
not adequate if so.
You certainly have several points to challenge on.
---------
By the way, pics are not needed to enforce contraventions but if
they took pics there is no reason not to send them. Westminster
puts its pics online like many councils.
#Post#: 32074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 3, 2024, 6:08 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> I think the dual bays are supposed to be restricted to
disabled drivers also charging EVs but could be wrong and the
signage is not adequate if so.
> You certainly have several points to challenge on.
>
> ---------
> By the way, pics are not needed to enforce contraventions but
if they took pics there is no reason not to send them.
Westminster puts its pics online like many councils.
>
--- End Quote ---
+1
The signs are totally inadequate.
#Post#: 32075--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: August 3, 2024, 6:15 am
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Thanks everyone. I will draft a letter of representation and
come back to all of you.
#Post#: 32107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: August 3, 2024, 9:37 am
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--- Quote from: FaeLLe link ---
>
> Thanks everyone. I will draft a letter of representation and
come back to all of you.
>
--- End Quote ---
Put the draft here for comment before sending.
#Post#: 32142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 3, 2024, 2:52 pm
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Upon reviewing your photograph of the entire parking bay, it is
apparent that it serves a dual purpose as both an electric
vehicle charging bay and a disabled parking bay.
You mentioned the electric vehicle charger was inoperative, and
the PCN indicates you were fined for parking in a disabled bay
without displaying a badge.
You have grounds to appeal.
Despite parking in the designated electric vehicle charging bay,
the charger was regrettably not operational, leading to the
unfortunate penalty for parking in a disabled bay.
Given the faulty charger, I consulted the security staff. I
enquired whether I needed to move my vehicle, and the staff said
that, since the charger was not working, I did not need to move
my car because it was an electric vehicle.
I paid the parking fee and obtained a pay & display ticket.
However, upon returning to my vehicle, I discovered a Penalty
Charge Notice affixed to it.
#Post#: 32145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 3, 2024, 4:23 pm
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It's not a shared use bay, it's a bay with conflicting markings
and signs, which conflict is NOT resolved by reference to the Ts
and Cs board.
The council will argue the toss, but IMO would lose at
adjudication if it got that far.
So what exactly are the markings and sign supposed to mean?
The sign is clear: electric vehicle parking - only while
charging.
So if it's not charging?
Then as regards the sign it's not complying. In which case code
71 applies:
71 Parked in an electric vehicles’ charging place during
restricted hours without charging. Off-street car parks.
What they have no basis for doing is claiming that despite the
sign making no reference on this point, the markings mean that
the bay is available to BB holders(on what terms I've no idea)
and therefore the appropriate grounds are as in the PCN.
IMO total nonsense.
As is the PCN where it states at the top of page 1: 'Woking
Borough Council as agents Acting for Surrey County Council', and
then on page 2: 'Enforcement Authority..where the contravention
occurs on street Woking Borough Council act as agent for Surrey
County Council'.
So, who is the enforcement authority given that the first
statement is not conditional or limited but contradicts the
subsequent reference?
A PCN must state the enforcement authority.
And yet SCC state:
Parking enforcement and fines
The changes to enforcement
Since 1 April 2023, on street parking enforcement in Surrey has
been carried out by NSL, working on our behalf (Surrey County
Council). Prior to that date it was carried out by the borough
and district councils, on our behalf, and they continue to carry
out parking enforcement in their car parks.
What a total f*****g shambles.
And the order doesn't refer to electric vehicles*(why would it,
it's dated 2005), I'm surprised it doesn't refer to chariots.
*- or electronic payments!
#Post#: 32149--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: Pressman
Date: August 3, 2024, 6:12 pm
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As an electric vehicle owner with personal experience in
charging, I prefer home charging for its convenience and cost
benefits, especially with a solar setup and no VAT so I
understand that dual-use bays can be confusing for new EV
drivers.
In this case, the driver wasn't charging due to a malfunctioning
charging point. Woking has two options here:
They could adopt a strict approach and enforce the penalty
notice, arguing that without charging, the vehicle is improperly
parked in a disabled bay. This would be a rigid application of
the rules.
Alternatively, they could demonstrate flexibility and cancel the
penalty notice, recognising that the driver did not charge due
to an out-of-service charging point and made an effort to seek
assistance.
I recommend appealing this decision. It's worth seeing how
Woking responds, as they might show some leniency given the
circumstances. Be ready to assert your position—this case
presents a strong argument.
#Post#: 32171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: FaeLLe
Date: August 4, 2024, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> As is the PCN where it states at the top of page 1: 'Woking
Borough Council as agents Acting for Surrey County Council', and
then on page 2: 'Enforcement Authority..where the contravention
occurs on street Woking Borough Council act as agent for Surrey
County Council'.
>
> So, who is the enforcement authority given that the first
statement is not conditional or limited but contradicts the
subsequent reference?
>
> A PCN must state the enforcement authority.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please could help me understand this point. Is the PCN not
allowed to be written in the form it currently is?
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> And the order doesn't refer to electric vehicles*(why would
it, it's dated 2005), I'm surprised it doesn't refer to
chariots.
> *- or electronic payments!
>
--- End Quote ---
What legal point can you quote to support the fact that a valid
TRO is required to enforce a PCN?
Is there a relevant TC case or judicial review that I can rely
on please.
#Post#: 32174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Shared use bay - Electric charging & Disabled - TMA 2004
PCN - Code 87 PCN issued instead of 71 - Charger not workin
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 4, 2024, 6:18 am
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I wouldn't worry about technicalities at the first informal
challenge and just go with the obvious appearance of it being a
charging bay that also accommodates disabled drivers and the
advice given to you concerning the inoperative charger.
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