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       #Post#: 32355--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: Melamili
       Date: August 5, 2024, 4:55 pm
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       I appreciate your feedback H C, my arguments may be wishy washy
       or I am not the best communicator or if I was to write every
       single detail it may be very long. On the form I pled guilty and
       asked to attend court. There was a space for adding more info
       which I stated I wanted to raise SRNTE. It said that I can
       provide full information when I attend. I read somewhere it may
       be worth writing separately to the prosecuters office and ask
       them to dismiss, what do you think?
       I am not sure why he mentions fleet policy he may have confused
       that with multi car policy. He fails to mention all the details
       I gave him regarding it appearing to be a deliberate act by my
       wife. We had a long chat and most of it doesn't appear in his
       statement.
       " One of the couple- in this case your wife- takes
       responsibility for these hands-on admin. tasks. You have
       separated since the last time the insurance on your car was
       renewed and she received an autorenew notice and responded by
       positively cancelling the insurance without giving you notice as
       some form of retribution"
       This is basically sums up what happened and hopefully can prove
       this once I receive subject access report from the insurers.
       There is still only one main policy holder on a multicar policy.
       All correspondence was addressed to her. Even as a named driver
       on the policy the insurance company wouldn't discuss with me
       over the phone.
       Having just checked my license 3 points have been removed as
       they have expired so I currently have 3 points for speeding.
       #Post#: 32358--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: FuzzyDuck
       Date: August 5, 2024, 5:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Melamili link ---
       >
       > Having just checked my license 3 points have been removed as
       they have expired so I currently have 3 points for speeding.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That doesn't affect anything regarding totting up, if the court
       awards you 6 points for the insurance offence, then at the point
       the offence occurred you would have had 6 points. Therefore
       totting up comes into play. The fact that 3 points dropped off
       before conviction occurred is irrelevant.
       #Post#: 32363--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: August 5, 2024, 5:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Considering that the current offence was committed less than 6
       months ago, and assuming that the 3 points that the OP no longer
       has are now no longer showing on the DVLA site due to being more
       than 4 years old (from date of offence), and/or that the OP has
       given no other indication of the date of that offence of age of
       the points, I would suggest that it would require a very
       "special" type of intellect to determine unequivocally that the
       OP is liable to tot.
       #Post#: 32367--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: FuzzyDuck
       Date: August 5, 2024, 6:30 pm
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       My point stands, if they had 6 points when the insurance offence
       was committed, and they fail to convince the court not to award
       another 6 points, totting will occur.
       #Post#: 32371--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: The Rookie
       Date: August 6, 2024, 1:10 am
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       --- Quote from: FuzzyDuck link ---
       >
       > My point stands, if they had 6 points when the insurance
       offence was committed, and they fail to convince the court not
       to award another 6 points, totting will occur.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       actually it’s not whether they ‘had’ 6 points it’s whether 6
       points counted for totting, as AF has pointed out you can ‘have’
       points that are between 3 and 4 years old on your licence, but
       being over 3 years old (at the date of the offence) they
       wouldn’t count for totting.
       Using ‘have/had’ is thus fraught with the danger of that
       mistake.
       OP, perhaps you can clarify if they were more than 3 years prior
       to the offence date of not.
       #Post#: 32492--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: August 6, 2024, 2:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OP, I don't know why your evidence conflicts with the
       constable's, but it does.
       In any event, IMO the driver at any time is under a duty to
       check that the vehicle they're driving is insured. Or has this
       become somebody else's responsibility? What insurance documents
       were you carrying in the car?
       When did you cease to be insured on this car/this car cease to
       be insured?
       #Post#: 32496--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: August 6, 2024, 3:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
       >
       > In any event, IMO the driver at any time is under a duty to
       check that the vehicle they're driving is insured. Or has this
       become somebody else's responsibility?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Twaddle.
       There is no duty to check that you are insured. I know that I'm
       insured and have no need to routinely check, and commit no
       offence by not checking.
       However, driving without insurance is a strict liability offence
       (apart from the statutory defence for company cars which does
       not apply to this case). If you are not insured you commit the
       offence regardless of whether you never checked, or whether you
       have a copy of the certificate in your hand, not realising that
       somebody has cancelled the policy. Obviously a bench would be
       far more likely to find SRNtE in the latter example than the
       former, all things being equal, but that has not create a duty
       to check.
       From what little the OP has told us, I am not expecting too much
       sympathy from the bench, but his options seem to be to spend
       half a day in court and throw himself on the court's mercy or
       avoid spending half a day in court and have an IN10 endorsement
       to declare for the following 5 years, as well as being 1 slip-up
       from a totting ban until the other 3 points expire (unless as
       seems to have been suggested he could hypothetically be facing a
       totting ban already if the points that have already come off his
       licence aren't 4 years old for another 6 months).
       If the OP wants to give us the details, we can potentially guide
       him in presenting them in such a way as to not unnecessarily
       aggravate the bench, although beyond the criteria for SRNtE
       already posted, there's not a lot that can be "shaped" in a fact
       specific submission which is sworn to be the truth, the whole
       truth and nothing but the truth - other than advise the OP to
       have answers for any obvious questions that the bench would be
       likely to ask.
       #Post#: 32518--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: Melamili
       Date: August 7, 2024, 4:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @the_rookie
       The offense that was removed was more than 4 years from the date
       of this incident.
       @H_C_Andersen
       The only things that are conflicting is the officer has confused
       multi car policy with fleet insurance plus the fact he has not
       mentioned most of our conversation. My insurance ceased I
       believe 2nd of February.
       [member=10]andy_foster[/member]
       I think I have provided all the information of what has
       happened. Is there anything you would like to know specifically
       or in more detail?
       What do you think about contacting the proescuters office before
       the hearing to ask them to drop the charges?
       Plus I have a message screenshot of her essentially admitting to
       removing me from the insurance. Also how common is it for police
       to allow you to do insurance on the spot when they have stopped
       yourather than impound the car?
       #Post#: 32543--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
   DIR By: The Rookie
       Date: August 7, 2024, 6:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Melamili link ---
       >
       > @the_rookie
       >
       > The offense that was removed was more than 4 years from the
       date of this incident.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       So that offence was never going to count for totting (over 3
       years old at the time of the offence) and that's off the table.
       --- Quote from: Melamili link ---
       >
       > What do you think about contacting the proescuters office
       before the hearing to ask them to drop the charges?
       >
       > Plus I have a message screenshot of her essentially admitting
       to removing me from the insurance. Also how common is it for
       police to allow you to do insurance on the spot when they have
       stopped yourather than impound the car?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       They won't drop the charges, not a chance.
       That will help (assuming said message post dates the offence!)
       Entirely at their discretion, usually only offered where there
       seems an 'honest' mistake as opposed to planned or 'abject
       dumbness' cases, but irrelevant to any subsequent court case.
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