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#Post#: 32355--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: Melamili
Date: August 5, 2024, 4:55 pm
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I appreciate your feedback H C, my arguments may be wishy washy
or I am not the best communicator or if I was to write every
single detail it may be very long. On the form I pled guilty and
asked to attend court. There was a space for adding more info
which I stated I wanted to raise SRNTE. It said that I can
provide full information when I attend. I read somewhere it may
be worth writing separately to the prosecuters office and ask
them to dismiss, what do you think?
I am not sure why he mentions fleet policy he may have confused
that with multi car policy. He fails to mention all the details
I gave him regarding it appearing to be a deliberate act by my
wife. We had a long chat and most of it doesn't appear in his
statement.
" One of the couple- in this case your wife- takes
responsibility for these hands-on admin. tasks. You have
separated since the last time the insurance on your car was
renewed and she received an autorenew notice and responded by
positively cancelling the insurance without giving you notice as
some form of retribution"
This is basically sums up what happened and hopefully can prove
this once I receive subject access report from the insurers.
There is still only one main policy holder on a multicar policy.
All correspondence was addressed to her. Even as a named driver
on the policy the insurance company wouldn't discuss with me
over the phone.
Having just checked my license 3 points have been removed as
they have expired so I currently have 3 points for speeding.
#Post#: 32358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: August 5, 2024, 5:16 pm
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--- Quote from: Melamili link ---
>
> Having just checked my license 3 points have been removed as
they have expired so I currently have 3 points for speeding.
>
--- End Quote ---
That doesn't affect anything regarding totting up, if the court
awards you 6 points for the insurance offence, then at the point
the offence occurred you would have had 6 points. Therefore
totting up comes into play. The fact that 3 points dropped off
before conviction occurred is irrelevant.
#Post#: 32363--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: August 5, 2024, 5:39 pm
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Considering that the current offence was committed less than 6
months ago, and assuming that the 3 points that the OP no longer
has are now no longer showing on the DVLA site due to being more
than 4 years old (from date of offence), and/or that the OP has
given no other indication of the date of that offence of age of
the points, I would suggest that it would require a very
"special" type of intellect to determine unequivocally that the
OP is liable to tot.
#Post#: 32367--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: August 5, 2024, 6:30 pm
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My point stands, if they had 6 points when the insurance offence
was committed, and they fail to convince the court not to award
another 6 points, totting will occur.
#Post#: 32371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 6, 2024, 1:10 am
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--- Quote from: FuzzyDuck link ---
>
> My point stands, if they had 6 points when the insurance
offence was committed, and they fail to convince the court not
to award another 6 points, totting will occur.
>
--- End Quote ---
actually it’s not whether they ‘had’ 6 points it’s whether 6
points counted for totting, as AF has pointed out you can ‘have’
points that are between 3 and 4 years old on your licence, but
being over 3 years old (at the date of the offence) they
wouldn’t count for totting.
Using ‘have/had’ is thus fraught with the danger of that
mistake.
OP, perhaps you can clarify if they were more than 3 years prior
to the offence date of not.
#Post#: 32492--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 6, 2024, 2:49 pm
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OP, I don't know why your evidence conflicts with the
constable's, but it does.
In any event, IMO the driver at any time is under a duty to
check that the vehicle they're driving is insured. Or has this
become somebody else's responsibility? What insurance documents
were you carrying in the car?
When did you cease to be insured on this car/this car cease to
be insured?
#Post#: 32496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: August 6, 2024, 3:21 pm
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> In any event, IMO the driver at any time is under a duty to
check that the vehicle they're driving is insured. Or has this
become somebody else's responsibility?
>
--- End Quote ---
Twaddle.
There is no duty to check that you are insured. I know that I'm
insured and have no need to routinely check, and commit no
offence by not checking.
However, driving without insurance is a strict liability offence
(apart from the statutory defence for company cars which does
not apply to this case). If you are not insured you commit the
offence regardless of whether you never checked, or whether you
have a copy of the certificate in your hand, not realising that
somebody has cancelled the policy. Obviously a bench would be
far more likely to find SRNtE in the latter example than the
former, all things being equal, but that has not create a duty
to check.
From what little the OP has told us, I am not expecting too much
sympathy from the bench, but his options seem to be to spend
half a day in court and throw himself on the court's mercy or
avoid spending half a day in court and have an IN10 endorsement
to declare for the following 5 years, as well as being 1 slip-up
from a totting ban until the other 3 points expire (unless as
seems to have been suggested he could hypothetically be facing a
totting ban already if the points that have already come off his
licence aren't 4 years old for another 6 months).
If the OP wants to give us the details, we can potentially guide
him in presenting them in such a way as to not unnecessarily
aggravate the bench, although beyond the criteria for SRNtE
already posted, there's not a lot that can be "shaped" in a fact
specific submission which is sworn to be the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth - other than advise the OP to
have answers for any obvious questions that the bench would be
likely to ask.
#Post#: 32518--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: Melamili
Date: August 7, 2024, 4:10 am
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@the_rookie
The offense that was removed was more than 4 years from the date
of this incident.
@H_C_Andersen
The only things that are conflicting is the officer has confused
multi car policy with fleet insurance plus the fact he has not
mentioned most of our conversation. My insurance ceased I
believe 2nd of February.
[member=10]andy_foster[/member]
I think I have provided all the information of what has
happened. Is there anything you would like to know specifically
or in more detail?
What do you think about contacting the proescuters office before
the hearing to ask them to drop the charges?
Plus I have a message screenshot of her essentially admitting to
removing me from the insurance. Also how common is it for police
to allow you to do insurance on the spot when they have stopped
yourather than impound the car?
#Post#: 32543--------------------------------------------------
Re: Driving without insurance single justice procedure notice
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: August 7, 2024, 6:07 am
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--- Quote from: Melamili link ---
>
> @the_rookie
>
> The offense that was removed was more than 4 years from the
date of this incident.
>
--- End Quote ---
So that offence was never going to count for totting (over 3
years old at the time of the offence) and that's off the table.
--- Quote from: Melamili link ---
>
> What do you think about contacting the proescuters office
before the hearing to ask them to drop the charges?
>
> Plus I have a message screenshot of her essentially admitting
to removing me from the insurance. Also how common is it for
police to allow you to do insurance on the spot when they have
stopped yourather than impound the car?
>
--- End Quote ---
They won't drop the charges, not a chance.
That will help (assuming said message post dates the offence!)
Entirely at their discretion, usually only offered where there
seems an 'honest' mistake as opposed to planned or 'abject
dumbness' cases, but irrelevant to any subsequent court case.
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