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#Post#: 31473--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 28, 2024, 5:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
YOu might care to use this, or parts of it: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <hr:mn> on Poplars
Road
I deny liability for the above PCN on the grounds that the
contravention did not occur, due to totally inadequate signage
I was accompanying my autistic son who is a Blue Badge holder,
and finding no parking available at the top of Poplars Road,
parked just beyond the bay on the double-yellow lines as a Blue
Badge holder is entitled to do.
On return to the car, I found the PCN and after walking around,
found a No Loading sign approximately 25 metres away, on a
lamppost by the main road where the now-blocked Poplars Road
joins Lea Bridge Road. However, there were no visible yellow
kerb markings to indicate there is a loading restriction as well
as the double-yellow lines. Had these been visible, I would not
have parked there. The council are under a duty to maintain
signs and lines so that they are clear to motorists. Here they
have not done so.
I therefore request that the PCN be immediately cancelled, and
the council suspend enforcement until the carriageway markings
are repainted.
YOurs faithfully
#Post#: 31501--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: mkdon
Date: July 29, 2024, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> YOu might care to use this, or parts of it: -
>
> Dear Sirs
>
> Re PCN <number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <hr:mn> on
Poplars Road
>
> I deny liability for the above PCN on the grounds that the
contravention did not occur, due to totally inadequate signage
>
> I was accompanying my autistic son who is a Blue Badge holder,
and finding no parking available at the top of Poplars Road,
parked just beyond the bay on the double-yellow lines as a Blue
Badge holder is entitled to do.
>
> On return to the car, I found the PCN and after walking
around, found a No Loading sign approximately 25 metres away, on
a lamppost by the main road where the now-blocked Poplars Road
joins Lea Bridge Road. However, there were no visible yellow
kerb markings to indicate there is a loading restriction as well
as the double-yellow lines. Had these been visible, I would not
have parked there. The council are under a duty to maintain
signs and lines so that they are clear to motorists. Here they
have not done so.
>
> I therefore request that the PCN be immediately cancelled, and
the council suspend enforcement until the carriageway markings
are repainted.
>
> YOurs faithfully
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you.
#Post#: 33027--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: mkdon
Date: August 12, 2024, 3:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi
The council finally emailed me, they rejected my initial appeal
(see response below).
They said I can make a a Representation Notice to Owner, how do
I do this? Isn't this same as my initial appeal?
HTML https://imgur.com/a/3P5Ctjc
HTML https://imgur.com/a/vfXxtvm
#Post#: 33033--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 12, 2024, 3:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You submitted an informal challenge to the PCN, and got the
usual brush-off. If you want to take the matter further, you now
have to wait for the Notice to Owner, and submit formal
representations against it. However, as they say in their reply,
the full £130 will be payable if they refuse these reps. On the
downside for them though, is if they do reject your formal reps
and don't re-offer the discount, it becomes a complete
no-brainer for you to take them to London Tribunals because the
penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs
whatsoever.
So basically, if you are sufficiently aggreived, wait for the
NtO and submit a formal representation. The NtO is sent to the
name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the
vehicle. Is this your vehicle and is the address up-to-date,
because if you don't receive the NtO it will be game over.
#Post#: 33213--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: mkdon
Date: August 13, 2024, 5:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> You submitted an informal challenge to the PCN, and got the
usual brush-off. If you want to take the matter further, you now
have to wait for the Notice to Owner, and submit formal
representations against it. However, as they say in their reply,
the full £130 will be payable if they refuse these reps. On the
downside for them though, is if they do reject your formal reps
and don't re-offer the discount, it becomes a complete
no-brainer for you to take them to London Tribunals because the
penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs
whatsoever.
>
> So basically, if you are sufficiently aggreived, wait for the
NtO and submit a formal representation. The NtO is sent to the
name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the
vehicle. Is this your vehicle and is the address up-to-date,
because if you don't receive the NtO it will be game over.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes my vehicle and address is up to date. I will appeal it once
i get my NtO, theyre trying their luck. how can they only have 1
faded yellow line for the entire 30 plus meters. also why is the
sign ( on lea bridge road) no repeated the entire length of the
no loading area. they should have 1 at either end so we can see
it
#Post#: 33237--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 13, 2024, 8:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, IMO the CEO, council and you are as confused as each other.
1. The PCN alleges a waiting and loading restriction(it's not a
loading 'bay' as you've called it, kerb markings indicate a
prohibition against loading outside 'bays'). So, what's the law?
As I understand it the regs give the following:
Single 'blip': Loading and unloading of vehicles prohibited for
a time that is not continuous through the year i.e. part-time;
These MUST be accompanied by a prescribed sign giving the
part-time days and hours.
Double blip: Loading and unloading of vehicles prohibited at all
times. A supplementary traffic sign is NOT required.
It is therefore reasonable to assume that:
1 As the CEO has presented evidence of a 'No loading at any
time' sign they believed that the markings were single and
needed a supplementary sign, in this case 'No loading at any
time'. But this sign is NOT permitted to be used with a single
blip because you cannot have a full-time part-time restriction.
This combination is not lawful. Which only leaves..
2. The CEO thought that there were double blips marked on the
kerb. In which case as these in themselves signify a
'prohibition at all times' a supplementary photo of a sign whose
purpose is rendered redundant by virtue of double blips is
unnecessary and potentially confusing.
To compound this confusing picture, the photo of the redundant
or incorrect 'No loading at any time' sign is situated in CPZ SB
beyond the boundaries of CPZ BA and therefore the CEO, and based
upon their response to your initial reps, the authority consider
that the restriction signs within CPZs are interchangeable
between CPZs.
#Post#: 33547--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: mkdon
Date: August 16, 2024, 5:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, IMO the CEO, council and you are as confused as each
other.
>
> 1. The PCN alleges a waiting and loading restriction(it's not
a loading 'bay' as you've called it, kerb markings indicate a
prohibition against loading outside 'bays'). So, what's the law?
>
> As I understand it the regs give the following:
>
> Single 'blip': Loading and unloading of vehicles prohibited
for a time that is not continuous through the year i.e.
part-time; These MUST be accompanied by a prescribed sign giving
the part-time days and hours.
>
> Double blip: Loading and unloading of vehicles prohibited at
all times. A supplementary traffic sign is NOT required.
>
> It is therefore reasonable to assume that:
>
> 1 As the CEO has presented evidence of a 'No loading at any
time' sign they believed that the markings were single and
needed a supplementary sign, in this case 'No loading at any
time'. But this sign is NOT permitted to be used with a single
blip because you cannot have a full-time part-time restriction.
This combination is not lawful. Which only leaves..
>
> 2. The CEO thought that there were double blips marked on the
kerb. In which case as these in themselves signify a
'prohibition at all times' a supplementary photo of a sign whose
purpose is rendered redundant by virtue of double blips is
unnecessary and potentially confusing.
>
> To compound this confusing picture, the photo of the redundant
or incorrect 'No loading at any time' sign is situated in CPZ SB
beyond the boundaries of CPZ BA and therefore the CEO, and based
upon their response to your initial reps, the authority consider
that the restriction signs within CPZs are interchangeable
between CPZs.
>
--- End Quote ---
to be honest im not sure whats going on either. all i know is
when the parking bays end, there are double yellow lines
stretching to the end of the road with only one yellow blip on
the kerb which is barely visible
as for the signage, even if its legit, you can only see if it
you was to enter from that side of the road ( which you cant due
to bollards) or walk in that direction. i will wait for my NtO
and then adjudicator if they still insist i have to pay it
#Post#: 33562--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 16, 2024, 8:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So there's a single blip.
OK.
It is meaningless in law unless it is accompanied by a traffic
sign which gives those times during which the loading
prohibition is in force.
There is NO evidence what times are prohibited, it MAY NOT as a
matter of law be 'At any time'.
OP, it is really a straightforward issue. Forget about parking
bays, they're irrelevant. DYL + single blip - part-time no
loading traffic sign = 0.
#Post#: 33589--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: mkdon
Date: August 16, 2024, 4:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> So there's a single blip.
>
> OK.
>
> It is meaningless in law unless it is accompanied by a traffic
sign which gives those times during which the loading
prohibition is in force.
>
> There is NO evidence what times are prohibited, it MAY NOT as
a matter of law be 'At any time'.
>
>
> OP, it is really a straightforward issue. Forget about parking
bays, they're irrelevant. DYL + single blip - part-time no
loading traffic sign = 0.
>
--- End Quote ---
Cheers mate
#Post#: 36640--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN 02 - Waltham Forest - No signs and wrong road
DIR By: mkdon
Date: September 12, 2024, 12:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi
My NtO came today, can anyone advise what should my response be.
Shall I say the blips were faded or mention the sign is on Lea
Bridge road and not the road I was on?
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