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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 31240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 25, 2024, 8:00 pm
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Hi All,
Just to add to the replies, i am the registered keeper, not my
dad.
He was just responding on my behalf, i know it’s my
responsibility to respond, but he said he knew what he was doing
so i left it to him, the letters even have his name on.
I do want to avoid throwing my dad under the bus for perverting
the course of justice even though that is what he did.
But considering i wasn’t the one driving, i can’t really make a
plea for the section 172 offence and i don’t have a defence for
that?
We did respond to it, well not me. But my Dad did, with letters
signed for by him. And we did actually check bank
statements/texts etc. The only thing we didn’t do is ask my
mother, but at the time i believe we had no reason to since she
wasn’t one of the 3 drivers on the policy and she doesn’t even
have a license so didn’t even give it a thought, which i know in
hindsight i should have, but it’s too late for that. The letters
were addressed to me, but it’s my dad who responded to them, not
me.
I guess the whole conviction would revolve around as to if they
think not asking my mother in regards to the whole incident is
not having due diligence?
#Post#: 31241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 25, 2024, 8:04 pm
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Just to add to the above also, we responded to the NIP, asked
for pictures, they were unclear.
Stated we would try our best to find out who the driver was at
the time.
I also have emails with the police from 2 months ago, after i
received the Single justice procedure asking if they had
received my letter which they stated they hadn’t, but i do have
emails from 2 months ago stating i had sent it, so it’s not as
if it’s just a defence i’ve made up recently trying to get out
of it etc.
All 3 drivers on the policy have 0 points, and all would have
been offered a course, including myself who holds a full
license, not the new driver one within 2 years, so we had no
reason to lie about the driver, we just genuinely didn’t want to
give false information.
#Post#: 31247--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 26, 2024, 2:20 am
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--- Quote from: reeceg03 link ---
>
> But considering i wasn’t the one driving, i can’t really make
a plea deal for the section 172 offence and i don’t have a
defence for that?
>
--- End Quote ---
That's correct. (Deal inserted as that's the only way your
question makes sense)
Referencing a previous comment, your Dad has thrown you under
the bus here. Not only could you have named the driver using
reasonable diligence, but you appear to have exercised the bare
minimum of diligence (and far below reasonable IMO based on what
you have told us) and even left it to one of the possible
drivers to reply on your behalf.
--- Quote from: reeceg03 link ---
>
> he said he knew what he was doing
>
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully he didn't as that would make the situation you are now
in much worse (deliberate act as opposed to a reckless one) in
terms of it's impact on you.
#Post#: 31252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: mickR
Date: July 26, 2024, 3:22 am
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--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> His mother wasn't one of the possible drivers because she's
not insured to drive it., which is why he didn't ask her if she
had any idea who was driving. Do try to keep up Roy.
>
--- End Quote ---
All correct,....
so begs the question, how did she suddenly "remembered my dad
was driving at that point"?? ie at the time of the speeding
offence.
#Post#: 31260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 26, 2024, 4:01 am
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Thanks for your replies here, just to clarify - we checked bank
statements, text messages, work emails to try and figure out who
the driver was at the time.
At that current time, we had no reason to ask my Mother as she
doesn’t even have a license so wasn’t anything to do with the 3
of us in that situation.
Bank transactions shown nothing on that day as cash must have
been used, and no text messages took place between the time of
offence. My mother remembers after we asked her after the 28
days, due to the fact she remembered him going to get food at
that time, due to it being in the fridge after a month and she
remembered, seems very coincidentally i know but that’s the
honest truth. Just to add, i did send the police emails around 2
months ago when i received the Single justice procedure stating
my dad was the driver, but they did say it was in the courts
hands to deal with now.
I understand he’s thrown me under the bus here, and i can’t
really say he’s done that as he will get done for much worse.
But i was hoping there would be an option where i can nominate
him as the driver in court and get him to plead guilty for
speeding for that charge, and they drop the Failure to ID
charge. Is this a possibility potentially? They have definitely
issued the charge for speeding, so i don’t believe it is timed
out. Is it a possibility they will just take the prosecution for
speeding on him and drop the failure to ID?
#Post#: 31262--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 26, 2024, 4:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: reeceg03 link ---
>
> I understand he’s thrown me under the bus here, and i can’t
really say he’s done that as he will get done for much worse.
But i was hoping there would be an option where i can nominate
him as the driver in court and get him to plead guilty for
speeding for that charge, and they drop the Failure to ID
charge.
>
--- End Quote ---
Simply not feasible, while 'possible' (outside of the legal
framework and so highly irregular and no more than 1% chance of
success anyway) it would involve the risk of him having to admit
the possible perverting offence and would be rather a high risk
strategy.
#Post#: 31265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 26, 2024, 4:20 am
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Are the bank statements or work emails insured to drive the car?
You understand that it's now too late to prosecute you Dad for
speeding, but you're still asking if they'll let you off for not
naming the driver if you do so 8+ months after the offence?
#Post#: 31267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 26, 2024, 4:27 am
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I understand, it’s too late to ID the driver. But surely they
wouldn’t have even started the charge for speeding if it was 6
months ago?
Does the same Failure to ID charge not have to be prosecuted
within 6 months also?
considering the offence was 26/11/2023, and i only received the
single justice procedure on 22/06/2024 is that not too late
also? But they have 100% took us to court for both offences
which surely both should be timed out?
#Post#: 31269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: BertB
Date: July 26, 2024, 4:31 am
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Just for clarity and to get round this use of 'we' for all what
has happened.
The first NIP was issued in your dad's name and he responded
naming you as the driver?
Did you receive your own form to complete?
You cannot do the deal to accept the speeding charge. To do so
would on the surface look like an attempt to PCOJ. So as it
stands you could attempt to defend the FTF charge on the basis
of all due diligence exercised at the time failed to reveal the
driver. However eventually naming a driver 2 months later who
had previously named you doesn't look good.
#Post#: 31271--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 26, 2024, 4:36 am
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Proceedings have to be instigated within 6 months of the
commission of the offence. They are instigated when a Written
Charge and SJPN are issued.
You initially claimed to have received the NIP on 26/11/2023.
Now that is the date of the speeding offence. The s. 172 offence
would have been committed 27 days after the date of service of
the NIP.
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