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#Post#: 31193--------------------------------------------------
Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 25, 2024, 1:07 pm
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Failure to ID Driver and speeding
Hi,
So, i’m very inexperienced in this situation, and looking for
some advice.
Basically 26/11/2023, i received an NIP for speeding 36mph in 30
in england. We replied to the NIP asking for pictures and it
still wasn’t clear who the driver was, which there were 3 people
at the time on the insurance so it could have been any of us. At
the time we checked bank records, any potential emails and texts
to see if we could figure out who the driver was to no luck.
a couple months later (after the 28 day NIP response time) we
figured out who the driver was, being my father and he will
admit to the speeding, with my Mother stating that she remembers
him using the car at that point. Initially, we had no reason to
ask her as she was not a named driver on my car, it was only me,
my dad and my sister. So didn’t have too much reason to ask her.
After this point, i sent a letter of the police owning up to my
father admitting he was driving and will happily provide a
statement.
21/06/2024, i have now got another letter - single justice
procedure asking to plead guilty or not guilty to both charges,
which i plead not guilty to, seems like they didn’t receive my
letter of admitting it was my dad, but i had heard nothing for
months so assumed it was dealt with.
As of today, i have now got a hearing for August 8th on my case,
my dad is still willing and happy to admit he was the driver at
the time of the alleged offence, so the speeding charge should
be fine and that will be him prosecuted for that. Although, the
failure to ID charge, will this be dropped or how can i go about
this?
*Edit* Just to add, all 3 drivers have 0 points and would have
been offered a course on this, i understand speeding is wrong
regardless, but we had no reason to hide/not identify the driver
on purpose since it would have been a lesser punishment. It also
says it’s a hearing before a full magistrate’s court if that
makes it any different?
#Post#: 31197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 25, 2024, 1:15 pm
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A speeding offence can’t be prosecuted after 6 months have
passed, so your father won’t be prosecuted. A couple of key
issues seem to come out:
1. Whether your letter was received.
2. Whether not asking your mother means that you failed to
exercise reasonable diligence.
The person keeping the vehicle (which I assume is you) has a
defence if they can show that they didn’t know who the driver
was and could not find out after exercising reasonable
diligence.
#Post#: 31203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 25, 2024, 1:28 pm
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Thanks for your reply, and i understand about the 6 months
having passed. Although from what i see from a bunch of other
forums, if you plead guilty to speeding they will drop the
failure to ID.
I assume we cannot take the speeding charge, so the only option
is to defend the Failure to ID charge?
#Post#: 31212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 25, 2024, 2:21 pm
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You have been charged with speeding, so you could absolutely
take it, except it seems you weren’t driving.
#Post#: 31214--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 25, 2024, 2:39 pm
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As regards trying to do a deal, the consensus here is that
pleading guilty to an offence that you know you did not commit
in order to avoid a harsher punishment for something that you
did do is perverting the course of justice.
That leaves the choice of trying to defend the s. 172 charge, or
pleading guilty to it.
If you plead guilty, you should expect 6 points (endorsement
code MS90), a fine of 1.5 weeks' relevant weekly income (minus
whatever discount is left of the 1/3 for an early guilty plea),
40% surcharge of the fine, and ~£95 prosecution costs.
If you maintain your not guilty plea and lose, you would lose
whatever discount you might have got for a guilty plea and
prosecution costs would be likely to be ~£620.
If you win, no points, no fine, no surcharge, no prosecution
costs, and you get to claim your expenses (mostly just travel
costs).
There is a defence to providing the information late if you can
persuade the court that it was not reasonably practicable to
provide the information any sooner (or at all). There is also a
defence of not knowing who was driving and not being able to
determine who it was with reasonable diligence.
Whilst I am not aware of any case law on the narrow point, I
would strongly suggest that the reasonable practicability
includes exercising reasonable diligence, so as SP has
mentioned, it seems to all boil down to the question of whether
asking your Mum if she knew anything substantially before she
let slip that it was your Dad would have exceeded "reasonable
diligence". I would further suggest that whilst SP is
technically absolutely correct, absent the most contrived of
circumstances that is not a question that most benches would
struggle to answer immediately.
As has been said, the speeding charge has no legs.
#Post#: 31219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: reeceg03
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:07 pm
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In all honesty, my father admitted after the fact he knew all
along, the letters we responded to the NIP with were in his name
not mine, i genuinely had no idea it was me.
I understand if he owns up to lying he will most likely get done
for perverting the course of justice, but i was wondering if
there was any better way to go about it?
#Post#: 31222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:23 pm
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So you never responded to the s 172 notice?
#Post#: 31224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:37 pm
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I would suggest that whether the OP wrote the letter that was
sent late (and seemingly lost in the post), or whether his Dad
did is essentially immaterial.
If your point is that the OP, whether personally, or through an
agent, failed to provide such information as was in his power to
give and that might have lead to the identification of the
driver - in other words did not provide any meaningful
information whatsoever during the 28 days, and therefore would
be unable to avail himself of the statutory defences, then I
would suggest that that would depend on what if any information
was provided with the request for photos, or otherwise within
the 28 days.
I am far from convinced that the OP would have a defence if he
threw his Dad under the bus for perverting. He might want to
throw him under the bus anyway, or he might want to avoid
throwing him under the bus.
If he wants to avoid throwing his Dad under the bus, I would
suggest that defending the charge and telling the whole truth
under oath might be problematic.
#Post#: 31226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: roythebus
Date: July 25, 2024, 4:13 pm
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I'm a bit baffled by this. In the first post "I" received a s172
letter. 'We" replied. Is "I" the registered keeper or is "we"one
of the family, the registered keeper? Your father maybe? that is
what you seem to hint at further down the page. I don't see how
the OP can be charged with failure to furnish information if his
father is the registered keeper. "We" should not be answering
the letters, it is the job of the registered keeper.
Also, the mother who apparently wasn't in the car at the time of
the speeding, remembers the father using the car at that
time.Hmmm...
#Post#: 31231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Speeding, Failure to ID advice
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 25, 2024, 4:36 pm
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His mother wasn't one of the possible drivers because she's not
insured to drive it., which is why he didn't ask her if she had
any idea who was driving. Do try to keep up Roy.
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