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       #Post#: 31143--------------------------------------------------
       HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: nm1827
       Date: July 25, 2024, 9:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Similar to another post here on this site. Was in a line of
       traffic and the width restriction came up suddenly.
       My car is a Mercedes CLS AMG and I was not sure it would fit
       through.
       There appeared to be absolutely no signage until at the
       restriction, and so I made a hasty decision to go through the
       middle (no signpost that cars are prohibited i.e. there wasn't
       any bus lane signage etc).
       PCN is uploaded here:
  HTML https://imgur.com/eXPA1bD
       Advice please!
       #Post#: 31145--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: nm1827
       Date: July 25, 2024, 9:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Also here is google maps image of the location:
  HTML https://imgur.com/a/7wV86Bk
       #Post#: 31150--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: July 25, 2024, 9:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Whole PCN please.
       #Post#: 31736--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: nm1827
       Date: July 31, 2024, 11:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
  HTML https://pdfupload.io/docs/afc4dce0
       Here it is. sorry for the delay, had to give birth to a baby.
       Suppose that won't be accepted as a mitigating circumstance
       would it
       #Post#: 31755--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: Grant Urismo
       Date: July 31, 2024, 1:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: nm1827 link ---
       >
       >
  HTML https://pdfupload.io/docs/afc4dce0
       >
       > Here it is. sorry for the delay, had to give birth to a baby.
       Suppose that won't be accepted as a mitigating circumstance
       would it
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Congratulations!
       ...but probably not (unless the baby is over 6ft 6 wide).
       #Post#: 31776--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: July 31, 2024, 3:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       They have fixed the number of grounds wording.
       Challenge
       * Required fields are marked with an * asterisk
       
       You should be aware that there are only a few mitigating
       circumstances that will be considered. For information on legal
       grounds for challenging your PCN, view the Environment and
       Traffic Appeals Service (E.T.A) website.
       Are you the owner/registered keeper of the vehicle?*
       Select
       Select the type of contravention you have received? *
       Select
       Why do you want to challenge the PCN? (1000 character limit)*
       Field is required
       ***************
       If we reject your challenge, you must pay the full fee. We will
       send information about how you can appeal. Your case could be
       reassessed, either at a personal hearing or by post.
       *******
       Under the Traffic Management Act 2004, you should get a response
       within 56 days.
       #Post#: 31812--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: nm1827
       Date: August 1, 2024, 4:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=24]Hippocrates[/member] any previous cases you know of
       where signage was deemed inadequate and so the argument can be
       made that no penalty charge is payable?
       The signage at the width restriction was terrible. You turn a
       corner and there it is. If in a line of traffic there is little
       chance to turn back around.
       #Post#: 31816--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: August 1, 2024, 5:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: nm1827 link ---
       >
       > [member=24]Hippocrates[/member] any previous cases you know of
       where signage was deemed inadequate and so the argument can be
       made that no penalty charge is payable?
       >
       > The signage at the width restriction was terrible. You turn a
       corner and there it is. If in a line of traffic there is little
       chance to turn back around.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Any advance signs on the approach roads, in particular for
       drivers turning left ?
       #Post#: 31830--------------------------------------------------
       Re: HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction lack of
       signage
   DIR By: Hippocrates
       Date: August 1, 2024, 6:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Had a look with no success I am afraid. Post up a draft for
       consideration please.
       #Post#: 57769--------------------------------------------------
       Re HARROW - Charlton Rd - PCN s38L - width restriction include
       lack of signage
   DIR By: Bustagate
       Date: February 12, 2025, 3:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I realise it's too late for this OP, but when I looked at Google
       Street View for Charlton Road I was surprised by the height of
       the offside post at the width restriction: it looks about
       1.2-1.3m.
       Width restrictions apply to the overall width of a vehicle (as
       defined by regulation 3 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and
       Use) Regulations 1986
  HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3).<br
       />That specifically excludes "driving mirrors".
       As the offside post was of a height which meant that the offside
       driving mirror would be included in the width to which the
       restriction applied and the vehicle's overall width was just
       within the specified width, the OP could claim justification for
       going over the hatched area as a result of being misled by the
       advance notice as to what the width restriction was.
       With regard to the adequacy of the signage: they've removed the
       No Entry sign which used to be on the bollard on the right of
       the hatching. That reinforced that you weren't meant to go over
       the hatching between the bollards and was present for some years
       after they removed the gate. Now they're relying solely on the
       tiny Keep Left arrow on the left bollard. Other local
       authorities which have width restrictions at the edges of the
       road with a white-hatched area between the bollards use
       full-size Keep Left signs on poles on the traffic island (often
       with a Traffic Enforcement Camera plate on the same pole): see
       24, Barnsbury Street Islington.
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