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#Post#: 31065--------------------------------------------------
Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN REC
DIR By: GRYOUT
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:13 am
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PCN was issued on my vehicle. This first came to my knowledge
when the NtO arrived about 35 days after the PCN was allegedly
issued. Several questions have arose around the issuance of the
PCN.. I'm suspicious about whether it was actually issued or
not.
1) I accessed the vehicle at 10:05, and there was no PCN on the
windscreen. The PCN was supposedly issued at 10:03, just 2mins
prior. There's a photo of a yellow PCN sticker on my windscreen,
but there was no PCN on there as I would have 100% seen it. I
can't believe that someone would have removed it in those 2mins
and I'm sus about whether it was actually issued or not.
Is it known for CEO's to 'pre-shoot' photos of the PCN being
issued before actually issuing it? I suspect the CEO put a dummy
PCN on the windscreen, took photos of it, and then went off to
print the actual PCN, only to find that my car had been moved by
the time it got back - so they never issued it.
2) On review of photos of the alleged contravention, the CEO
took several photos of the vehicle on the SYL at 10:03. There's
no photo with the yellow sign board AND my vehicle together.
At 10:10, they've taken another photo of a sign board somewhere
else on the road and included this, but it doesn't include my
car in the photo at all - just a close up of another signboard
that clearly isn't the one near my car. If it were the signboard
next to my car, then my house would have been in the background,
rather than some random tree and a fence. Is this valid/allowed?
For context: I parked outside my house on a SYL as my neighbours
are doing building work and had blocked access to my driveway
with builders/delivery vehicles that morning. As I knew I'd be
using the car shortly after 10am, I left it on the SYL for half
an hour rather than asking everyone to move their cars around.
I've lived here 10yrs and always park on my driveway. And for
anyone wondering, the restriction is indeed 8:30am - 10:30am,
and there is a valid yellow sign outside my house where I parked
- it's just not captured alongside my car in the photos.
I also would have likely paid the £35 reduced fee if I'd known
about it at the time, but there was no PCN, so the first time
I've learnt about the PCN was when the NtO for £70 came through.
GSV here
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3645698,-0.2534812,3a,33.6y,316.95h,85.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slWzxqoJNv-7xNq6zOz3NBg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DlWzxqoJNv-7xNq6zOz3NBg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D316.94603434268123%26pitch%3D4.128965134986288%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu
#Post#: 31068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN RECEIVED?!
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:18 am
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For meaningful advice please to have a read of
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post up all sides of the PCN, redacting only name and
address, with a GSV link to the location.
What time did you park the car?
#Post#: 31071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN RECEIVED?!
DIR By: GRYOUT
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:25 am
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> For meaningful advice please to have a read of
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
>
> and post up all sides of the PCN, redacting only name and
address, with a GSV link to the location.
>
> What time did you park the car?
>
--- End Quote ---
Just updated my post for you. I was there from about 9:35am -
10:05am. Was parked outside my house as driveway wasn't
accessible at the time and I knew I'd be using the car at
10:05am.
#Post#: 31153--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN RECEIVED?!
DIR By: mogul87
Date: July 25, 2024, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: GRYOUT link ---
>
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=2624.msg31068#msg31068
date=1721895497]
> For meaningful advice please to have a read of
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
>
> and post up all sides of the PCN, redacting only name and
address, with a GSV link to the location.
>
> What time did you park the car?
>
--- End Quote ---
Just updated my post for you. I was there from about 9:35am -
10:05am. Was parked outside my house as driveway wasn't
accessible at the time and I knew I'd be using the car at
10:05am.
[/quote]
still missing required info eg council photos, images of PCN all
sides etc.
#Post#: 31161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN REC
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 25, 2024, 10:24 am
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I suspect the CEO put a dummy PCN on the windscreen, took photos
of it, and then went off to print the actual PCN, only to find
that my car had been moved by the time it got back - so they
never issued it.
Probability...<< 0.00000001% IMO.
It's not that you found an empty envelope, you didn't find one
at all.
The council have photos of an envelope having been served on
your* vehicle and IMO an adjudicator would find as a fact that
it was served, however passionately your account is told.
For context: I parked outside my house on a SYL as my neighbours
are doing building work and had blocked access to my driveway
with builders/delivery vehicles that morning. As I knew I'd be
using the car shortly after 10am, I left it on the SYL for half
an hour rather than asking everyone to move their cars around
So was this neighbour's car also ticketed given that they were
parked on a SYL while in force?
We do need to see the NTO pl.
As you seem content to pay the discounted penalty then, as it is
a regular, but not prescribed, practice for authorities to
re-offer the discount in the event of unsuccessful reps and
absent any other grounds which we might discover on viewing the
notice to owner IMO you should as a minimum endeavour to submit
reps no later than 13 days after deemed service of the NTO(2
working days after posting).
I would limit your reps to facts and not what might be
considered wild and baseless accusations about the CEO's
actions.
*- pl confirm that you are the registered keeper.
#Post#: 32022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN REC
DIR By: GRYOUT
Date: August 2, 2024, 4:06 pm
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Thanks for coming back.
I don't know if others received PCNs but I remember their cars
still being parked there when our car was moved 2mins after the
PCN was supposedly issued. I would have spotted a ticket on
their screens too. I can see them from a mile off when I walk
out there and they're bright yellow.. hard to miss.
I'll upload the requested info in my next post, but here's a
brief update of what's happened to date.
Since posting here,
1) Sent rep back on 25/07/2024. Requested it be cancelled.
2) Received NoR today, 02/08/2024 via email. They've offered me
the reduced fee of £35 and 14 days in which to pay it.
Bit surprised to see the NoR isn't just a generic blanket
response, but actually feels considered, which was unexpected.
#Post#: 32029--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN
DIR By: GRYOUT
Date: August 2, 2024, 5:16 pm
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Managed to get a copy of the "original" PCN
HTML https://pdfupload.io/docs/f192b1aa.
PCN was not received/present
on vehicle when it was moved at 10:05am on 18/06/2024 (2mins
after it was said to be issued). Chased them on email last week
following receipt of the NtO and my rep submission and they
kindly sent it over.
NtO - received 23/07/2024.
HTML https://pdfupload.io/docs/ac5c9e7e
This was the first time I
learnt about the PCN
NoR - received 02/08/2024.
HTML https://pdfupload.io/docs/4c547712
They've offered the reduced
amount for 14 days and have responded to most of my points. No
explanation why aa photo of the restriction at the start of the
road was taken instead of the one where the vehicle was parked.
Note timestamp also 7mins after PCN was issued. There is also no
photo of the car and the sign together, only the car from the
pavement and the rear of the post.
GSV
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3645698,-0.2534812,3a,44.5y,326.68h,81.86t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slWzxqoJNv-7xNq6zOz3NBg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DlWzxqoJNv-7xNq6zOz3NBg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D326.6826495753665%26pitch%3D8.144532032644506%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu
#Post#: 32032--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN RECEIVED?!
DIR By: GRYOUT
Date: August 2, 2024, 5:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mogul87 link ---
>
> [quote author=GRYOUT link=topic=2624.msg31071#msg31071
date=1721895910]
> [quote author=John U.K. link=topic=2624.msg31068#msg31068
date=1721895497]
> For meaningful advice please to have a read of
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
>
> and post up all sides of the PCN, redacting only name and
address, with a GSV link to the location.
>
> What time did you park the car?
>
--- End Quote ---
Just updated my post for you. I was there from about 9:35am -
10:05am. Was parked outside my house as driveway wasn't
accessible at the time and I knew I'd be using the car at
10:05am.
[/quote]
still missing required info eg council photos, images of PCN all
sides etc.
[/quote]
Have just uploaded all the requested info, linked in my previous
post. I'm wondering if they have any grounds to win if I appeal
as they don't actually have a photo of the vehicle and the
enforced times in the same shot.
The car was parked at 9:30am and moved at 10:05am
As can be seen in the photo, there's multiple vehicles parked on
the line, blocking access to the driveway. It looks wider than
it is in reality and it was awkward at the time. Not making
excuses; just explaining why the car ended up on the yellow
lines.
Evidence on file shows the car parked on the SYL, a post on the
grass very but only the back of the post/signpost. The times on
the post are not shown in the image due to the angle of the
photo being from the back. There are no other photos showing
that a sign is clearly fixed to the post, that it was visible on
the day, or what the restriction of that specific location's
board shows. There's also no photo if the vehicle and the
restriction framed in the same shot.
Evidence parked on SYL.
HTML https://imgur.com/WaW8rP2
This is the image of the restriction they've uploaded. It was
taken at the start of the road, well out of view of the vehicle
on the SYL. GSV of where the restriction board picture on file
was taken
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3613353,-0.2515374,3a,69.4y,292.05h,91.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soRaif_GaJSmNr5V9cnPTcQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DoRaif_GaJSmNr5V9cnPTcQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D292.04563669287387%26pitch%3D-1.7981688974522143%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3613353,-0.2515374,3a,69.4y,292.05h,91.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soRaif_GaJSmNr5V9cnPTcQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DoRaif_GaJSmNr5V9cnPTcQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D292.04563669287387%26pitch%3D-1.7981688974522143%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu
Signboard in different location.
HTML https://imgur.com/wyBtBgg
#Post#: 32041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN REC
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 2, 2024, 6:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It is disingenuous of them to show a photo of a sign some
considerable distance from where you parked. However, if you
want to take the matter further, you can take them to London
Tribunals, but the full PCN penalty will be in play.
Is the sign in their photo for the same single yellow line
outside your house ?
#Post#: 32058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Surrey County Council - 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours... but NO PCN REC
DIR By: GRYOUT
Date: August 3, 2024, 3:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The SYL runs continuously with no break from the start of the
road up to, and past, where the car was parked. So the short
answer is yes, the sign they've taken a photo of is linked to
the SYL that's been parked on.
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