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#Post#: 30973--------------------------------------------------
BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Rufeus
Date: July 24, 2024, 8:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I hope you can help and will appreciate any input.
I've received text messages from CDER in the past few months
that looked like many other scams (images below) so I ignored
them. Yesterday I received a Baliff Warrant of Control text
message that also looked suspicious but was obviously
concerning.
HTML https://imgur.com/GYF4b9G
HTML https://imgur.com/YeAg1VX
I followed up this morning and it turns out this is for a PCN
from 2022. The backstory is that I never received the original
notice (apparently issued 02/05/22) in the post. I did receive
the follow-up Charge Certificate dated 08/06/22 outlining a
traffic contravention with a penalty charge amount and a 50%
increase of £65. I challenged this online, stating that I did
not receive the original notice so hadn't had the opportunity to
pay the penalty charge or make representations. There is an
email confirmation of my appeal.
HTML https://imgur.com/t40Dvyy
HTML https://imgur.com/gFzuARP
Since then I never received any response to my challenge. After
contacting the City of London Parking Ticket Office (PTO) this
morning they state that they sent me a response dated 02/11/22
and then again on 29/11/23. I never received it so assumed it
had been cancelled.
Last year August my flat, the property where my vehicle was
registered, burnt down and I've not had access to the property
since. Obviously, I never received anything past August 2023. I
don't have any analog documentation as it's been 2 years since I
appealed.
The person who I spoke to at the PTO was helpful and has put the
Bailiffs on hold for 21 days and told me I can file a PE2 and
PE3 and I don't have to explain anything about what has passed
since my last challenge:
--- Quote ---
>
> Thank you for your recent communication.
>
> As requested I can confirm that a hold of 21 days has been
placed with the bailiffs, whilst you’re in the process of a
filing a Statutory Declaration Out of Time.
>
> PE2:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe2-application-to-file-a-statutory-declaration-out-of-time
>
> PE3:
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pe3-challenge-an-unpaid-penalty-charge-notice
> Contact Details for Traffic Enforcement Centre who will be
processing the application.
> Email: tec@justice.gov.uk
> Telephone: 0300 1231059
> Postal address: Traffic Enforcement Centre
> Northampton County Court
> 5th Floor St Katharine’s House
> 21-27 St Katharine’s Street
> Northampton, NN1 2LH
>
> Regards
> PTO Team
>
--- End Quote ---
This is obviously extremely concerning. I'm happy to pay the
original fine as that was never the issue. I'd appreciate help
in filling in the PE2 and PE3 to give me the best chances of
getting rid of the bailiffs.
#Post#: 30980--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 24, 2024, 9:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How much are CDER demanding?
Pl confirm that your address in 2022 was the same as on your V5C
and how long you'd lived at that address.
The person who I spoke to at the PTO was helpful and has put the
Bailiffs on hold for 21 days and told me I can file a PE2 and
PE3 and I don't have to explain anything about what has passed
since my last challenge:
Contact the PTO and ask for copies of the notices and
correspondence issued by the council as you need these details
for your OOT. And 21 days from when?
#Post#: 30983--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Pressman
Date: July 24, 2024, 10:22 am
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If the PCN is from 2022, the amount due will be £514.
You must confirm the address on the Warrant with the City of
London. If you have received a text message, it suggests that
the bailiffs may not have your current address and have yet to
be successful in locating your vehicle using an ANPR camera.
Refrain from giving your current address; otherwise, they will
pass it on to bailiffs.
Filing a PE2 will reveal your current address, prompting the
issuance of a new warrant. CDER will start visiting without
sending a Notice of Enforcement, as they believe the statutory
notice requirement was already met by notifying your previous
address.
Given that the PCN dates back from 2022, the statutory 12-month
expiry of the Notice is likely to lapse, and the enforcement
ends, hence the text messages.
#Post#: 30984--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Rufeus
Date: July 24, 2024, 10:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your response.
CDER are demanding £514
I lived at the address on my V5C from 2010 but moved to my
current address in July 2022. I still own the property noted on
the V5C and had access to the post until the fire in August 2023
(but obviously this doesn't need to be shared if it helps my
case).
I'll contact PTO and ask for copies.
The 21 days notice to the bailiffs (confirmed by the PTO) is
from today 24/07/24.
#Post#: 30986--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Rufeus
Date: July 24, 2024, 10:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
>
> Contact the PTO and ask for copies of the notices and
correspondence issued by the council as you need these details
for your OOT. And 21 days from when?
>
--- End Quote ---
I've contacted the assistant at the PTO and they've said that I
can't get these re-issued without going through a data
protection request which could take months (definitely longer
than the 21 days I have). He also said that I don't need any of
them for the forms.
--- Quote ---
>
> Given that the PCN dates back from 2022, the statutory
12-month expiry of the Notice is likely to lapse, and the
enforcement ends, hence the text messages.
>
--- End Quote ---
When I asked about this with the PTO they said that because they
have my original challenge on file this won't affect any expiry.
He also said that although he can't guarantee it, I have a
strong chance of it being accepted because of my first appeal on
20 June 2022.
--- Quote ---
>
> Filing a PE2 will reveal your current address, prompting the
issuance of a new warrant. CDER will start visiting without
sending a Notice of Enforcement, as they believe the statutory
notice requirement was already met by notifying your previous
address.
--- End Quote ---
If the 21 day hold notice has been placed with the bailiffs,
they can't do anything until the lapse, right? I need to supply
my current address on the PE2 and PE3 to get a response for
trying to reduce the costs of the predicament. If everything
fails I'll have to pay the bailiffs regardless?
#Post#: 30991--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Pressman
Date: July 24, 2024, 11:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's unlikely a data protection request will take months, but I
don't have any first-hand experience to speak from.
Let me clarify the process. The Notice of Enforcement, issued
for a traffic debt, expires after 12 months from the date of
issue. However, this expiration only terminates the enforcement,
not the liability for the debt.
If the PTO puts a 21-day hold, then that is at their discretion;
they can arbitrarily revoke the hold at any time.
I am not hopeful a PE2 will succeed, and if it fails, then that
will re-ignite the enforcement, and that's £514. My
understanding, and someone else might put me right, is that PE2
only suspends enforcement, so the suspension is lifted. If the
PE2 fails, the process continues from where it left off.
If you leave things where they are, then you might get a few
more text messages, but enforcement will be difficult without
your address. I see your previous address is a flat, currently
empty, so getting anything there is unlikely to come to more
than text messages.
#Post#: 31028--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 24, 2024, 2:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, you do not owe £514 unless:
CDER have served a Notice of Enforcement, and
CDER have visited the property named in the warrant for the
purposes of execution.
There is no imperative for the council to refuse your request,
they're perfectly able and permitted to supply the docs without
a SAR. But they want to play hardball.
Submit a SAR and refer to notices and communications from the
council AND their agents.
AND once an OOT is submitted the council MUST suspend
enforcement until a decision is served. This could be several
weeks.
So it's NOT the council's 21 days v their response to a SAR,
it's the time it takes TEC to process your OOT v the council's
duty under GDPR.
#Post#: 31051--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Rufeus
Date: July 24, 2024, 6:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Pressman and H C Anderson.
Is there perhaps a SAR template anywhere that could help? I've
searched on the forum but can't find any mention of it.
If not, I'll try and find one elsewhere.
Some other questions:
- If I submit and SAR, surely I'd need to give my current
address for the documents to be sent? Or do you know if it can
be done by email to avoid that getting to the bailiffs?
- Although the property named on the V5C (a flat) is not
accessible, there is a reception that services the rest of the
building that wasn't affected by the fire. The bailiffs can't
serve a notice of enforcement there can they? Would they have to
serve me in person?
#Post#: 31056--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: Pressman
Date: July 24, 2024, 10:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A SAR is not necessary as it is only for getting personal data
about you held by a registrant.
Instead, consider issuing a Notice under Rule 6 of the
Pre-action Conduct and Protol. This compels the respondent to
disclose the information you need to verify any potential
impropriety that could lead to a claim. You also have the option
to use an alternate address for service, which can help protect
your current address from being disclosed.
A bailiff cannot serve a Notice on the reception because that is
not where you live.
#Post#: 31067--------------------------------------------------
Re: BAILIFF NOTICE: City of London, Code 52M vehicle in
bus/bicycle-only zone, Cornhill
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 25, 2024, 3:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The OP is confused enough by a SAR, so realistically and
proportionately I suggest they stick with it.
OP, see pages 10-11. Note that a SAR does NOT have to follow any
specified format:
HTML https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/assets/about-us/access-to-information/data-subjects-rights-policy-may-2024.pdf
The email address is given, and note that it has nothing to do
with parking, this is about personal data.
The fact that CDER are communicating by email suggests that they
don't have a current address at which to execute the warrant.
But OP, there's time enough for speculation AFTER you've started
the data gathering process. So get busy pl.
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