URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 30959--------------------------------------------------
       London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box
       junction
   DIR By: John001
       Date: July 24, 2024, 6:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi,
       My wife was following a van into a yellow box junction. The
       traffic was flowing freely.
       the van stopped after clearing the junction, so she was caught
       inside the junction.
       What she couldn't see was a car 2 in front of the van on the
       inside of a bus.
       On the video evidence, the car has stopped although there looks
       to be room for it to easily pass the bus.
       The upshot is a pcn for stopping in the junction.
       You can see this on
       lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/parking
       Then challenge a pcn
       PCN (ticket ref) ZY09564758
       VRN GF63ODM
       Although she is clearly in the yellow box, is it worth appealing
       this PCN?
       #Post#: 30966--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box
       junction
   DIR By: MrChips
       Date: July 24, 2024, 7:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Based on the video, I can't see any viable defence I'm afraid.
       The car enters the box junction and then has to stop within the
       box junction directly because of a stationary vehicle blocking
       its exit.  Pretty much a textbook box junction contravention.
       However, it's possible if you link us to a copy of the PCN (with
       name and address only redacted) we might spot technical issues
       with the wording which could yet win the day.  From the Lewisham
       website, the timing of the offence is shown as 1320 but the
       video suggests the offence occurs at 1319 (the offence occurs at
       point of entry) - probably not sufficiently wrong to get it
       cancelled but it's a start...
       Incidentally, is this outside Grove Park station?  I used to
       have to travel there regularly when I was at school (many years
       ago) as our sports fields were located there.
       #Post#: 31998--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box
       junction
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: August 2, 2024, 12:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [member=1373]John001[/member] I'd go with something very simple
       and to the point, based on the issue identified by MrChips:
       [indent]
       Dear London Borough of Lewisham,
       I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged
       contravention did not occur. This is because there is a
       prohibition on entering a box junction if the vehicle cannot
       clear the box junction without stopping, so the contravention
       occurs at the point of entry.
       The video in this case shows the vehicle entered the box
       junction at 1:19 pm but the penalty charge notice alleges a
       contravention at 1:20 pm, so while a contravention might have
       occurred the contravention stated on the face of the notice did
       not.
       It follows that the penalty charge must be cancelled.
       Yours faithfully,
       [/indent]
       Send this online and make sure to keep a screenshot of the
       confirmation page.
       #Post#: 32006--------------------------------------------------
       Re: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box
       junction
   DIR By: John001
       Date: August 2, 2024, 1:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for your replies MrChips and cp8759.
       The timings were in fact 15:19 and 15:20 so I have responded
       with the following
       The contravention did not occur
       Because:
       
       At the time I am supposed to have been in contravention, the
       restriction did not apply
       
       Your explanation:
       Dear London Borough of Lewisham, I challenge liability on the
       ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is
       because there is a prohibition on entering a box junction if the
       vehicle cannot clear the box junction without stopping, so the
       contravention occurs at the point of entry. The video in this
       case shows the vehicle entered the box junction at 15:19 pm but
       the penalty charge notice alleges a contravention at 15:20 pm,
       so while a contravention might have occurred the contravention
       stated on the face of the notice did not. It follows that the
       penalty charge must be cancelled. I am not allowed to submit my
       challenge without ticking one of the reasons presented me, so I
       have selected " At the time I am supposed to have been in
       contravention, the restriction did not apply"
       By the way MrChips it is indeed at Grove Park Station
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 1