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#Post#: 30932--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:16 am
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--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> Have removed.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for that :)
#Post#: 30934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:20 am
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--- Quote from: DontStandForNonsense link ---
>
> I couldn't see a password anywhere on it?
>
--- End Quote ---
Right hand side, above the table with the claim amounts etc. on
it.
#Post#: 30939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> With a claim issue date of 12th July, you have until Wednesday
31st July to acknowledge service (AoS) of the claim. There is no
advantage to delaying the AoS. However, by filing the AoS, you
then have until 4pm on Wednesday 14th August to submit your
defence.
>
> You should have a read of the document in the link below on
how to submit your AoS. Do not use the MCOL to submit your
defence. That should be done as a PDF attachment to an email
which will be advised once you have done the AoS.
>
>
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0
>
> There is a new "short" defence that should shorten the whole
process and see this either discontinued or struck-out because
the claimant has failed to follow the rules, namely CPR
16.4(1)(a).
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for this. Based on my particular case, should I select
defend 'all' or 'part' in the AoS?
#Post#: 30941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Unless you accept you owe some of the money, you should be
choosing to defend 'all' of the claim.
#Post#: 30946--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> Unless you accept you owe some of the money, you should be
choosing to defend 'all' of the claim.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well we were parked at the site and almost certainly stayed
beyond what we did not know was the limit. I am assuming there
would have been signage though we did not see or think to read
them. It does seem very unreasonable to charge customers using
the site, fines in this way, but I wonder if claiming I
shouldn't pay anything would be seen as a weak argument. Or if I
would be claiming the escalation of costs should be redacted due
to not having sent me fines at any intermediary stages?
#Post#: 30950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 6:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok I sent the AoS as instructed and chose the option contest all
- hope that was correct. Was worried the site might time before
I receive further guidance.
#Post#: 30952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> With a claim issue date of 12th July, you have until Wednesday
31st July to acknowledge service (AoS) of the claim. There is no
advantage to delaying the AoS. However, by filing the AoS, you
then have until 4pm on Wednesday 14th August to submit your
defence.
>
> You should have a read of the document in the link below on
how to submit your AoS. Do not use the MCOL to submit your
defence. That should be done as a PDF attachment to an email
which will be advised once you have done the AoS.
>
>
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0
>
> There is a new "short" defence that should shorten the whole
process and see this either discontinued or struck-out because
the claimant has failed to follow the rules, namely CPR
16.4(1)(a).
>
--- End Quote ---
AoS submitted and alarm set to warn before 14th of Aug.
#Post#: 30967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: b789
Date: July 24, 2024, 7:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You are defending ALL the claim. Thankfully you did so.
Is the V5C registration document up to date? Did you move at any
time in the last year or so and if so, did you update the V5C
address with the DVLA. Updating your drivers licence does not
automatically update the V5C.
Why are you thinking that you are liable for an alleged debt to
an unregulated private parking company. Can anyone simply send
you an invoice and you will just pay it without wondering why
you are alleged to owe the money?
The claim is against the driver. The claimant is alleging that,
because the driver (who is always liable for the alleged debt)
is unknown, they can also sue the keeper, who is known. They
cannot do both. If they want to be able to transfer liability
from the unknown driver to the known keeper, they will have had
to comply fully with all the requirements of PoFA. We have no
idea if they did or did not.
Was the driver aware that there were conditions for stopping on
the private land? Was the fact that there was a charge of £100,
adequately brought to the attention of the driver? Was the
signage fully compliant with the unregulated private parking
company's Approved Operator Scheme? Does the PPC even have a
valid contract flowing from the landowner to them that allows
them to issue PCNs in their own name?
There are so many failures in their claim that the short defence
will force them to submit a new particulars of claim that fully
comply with the attached order. They will be unable to do so.
As you have done the AOS, the defence must be submitted before
the deadline. The defence and order should filed as PDF
attachments to an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk.
The subject of the email should contain the claim reference
number and simply state in the body of the email: Please see
attached defence and draft order for claim [claim number].
This is the suggested defence:
--- Quote ---
> [center]
---------------------------------------------------------
>
> IN THE COUNTY COURT[/center]
>
> [right]Claim No: [Claim Number][/right]
>
> [center]BETWEEN:
>
> Claimant's Full Name
> Claimant
>
> - and -
>
> Defendant's Full Name

> Defendant
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
>
> DEFENCE[/center]
>
> 1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim.

>
> 2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of
Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made
against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR
16.4(1)(a).

>
> 3.The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC
because:
>
> (i) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to
the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.5;
>
> (ii) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or
clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or
contracts) which is/are relied on;
>
> (iii) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the
claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or
contracts);
>
> (iv) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity
exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the
breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was
parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;
>
> (v) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory
interest is calculated;
>
> (vi) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the
parking charge and what proportion is damages;
>
> (vii) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant
as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows
whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper
and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of
action.
>
> 4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an
order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to
make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and
understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond
properly to the claim.

>
> Statement of truth
>
> I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I
understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought
against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false
statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without
an honest belief in its truth.
>
> Signed:
>
>
> Date:
--- End Quote ---
This is the draft order that should be sent with the defence:
--- Quote ---
> Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars
of claim and the defence,
>
> AND the court being of the view that there is a lack of
precise detail in the particulars of claim in respect of the
factual and legal allegations made against the defendant(s),
such that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR
16.4(1)(a),
>
> It is Ordered that:
>
> 1. Unless the Claimant by 4pm on [insert a date here, 14 days
from the date of this order] files at court further particulars
of claim which comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and which set out:
>
> (i) the precise and concise factual allegations it makes
against the Defendant;
>
> (ii) the factual or legal basis (or both) of its claim; and
>
> (iii) exactly how its claim is calculated (if there is a claim
for a fixed sum);
>
> then the claim shall be struck out.
>
> 2. For the avoidance of doubt, the further particulars of
claim must:
>
> (i) Refer to and have attached to them a copy of the contract
(or contracts) between the Claimant and Defendant relied upon
(clearly marked "A") and set out the exact wording of the
clause(s) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which
is (or are) relied upon.
>
> (ii) Refer to and have attached to them a copy of each of the
PCNs which forms the basis of this claim (clearly marked "B")
and state by what method each of the PCNs was first brought to
the attention of the Defendant. For example, attaching it to the
Defendant's vehicle.
>
>
> (iii) In respect of each and every alleged breach of contract,
set out the reason(s) why the Claimant asserts that the
Defendant was in breach of contract.
>
> (iv) In respect of each and every alleged breach of contract,
set out:
>
> (a) the full postal address where the breach took place,
>
> (b) the precise date and time of the alleged breach, and
>
> (c) exactly how long it is alleged that the Defendant parked
his/her/its/their vehicle before the parking charge was
incurred.
>
> (v) State whether the Defendant is sued as the driver of the
vehicle or the keeper of the vehicle. The further particulars of
claim must not plead that the Defendant is sued either as the
driver of the vehicle or as the keeper of the vehicle.
>
> (vi) State what part of the claim is for non-payment of the
PCN and what part of the claim is for damages, explaining the
factual or legal basis (or both) of the claim for damages.
>
> (vii) Set out a precise calculation of any claim for statutory
interest up to the date of issue, including the date when it is
said that interest started running.
>
> 3. Permission is granted to either party to apply to set
aside, vary, or stay this order by an application on notice,
which must be filed at this Court no later than 5 days after
service of this order. Failing which, no such application may be
made.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 30996--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 11:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is total leaglese to me but it looks like you really know
what you're on about :)
Forgive my ignorance but do I understand next steps correctly:
1. Edit the defence you posted to include my name, case number,
claimant, signed and dated
2. Edit the order with
Save them as pdf files
3. Attached them in an email addressed to
claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk
4. With the claim ref in the subject line and 'Please see
attached defence and draft order for claim [claim number]' in
the main body of the email
5. Only thing to edit in the order is to put the date of the
14th of August if I send it today (24 July)?
Will I receive any sort of confirmation or expect to receive a
reply?
#Post#: 30997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket
carpark
DIR By: DontStandForNonsense
Date: July 24, 2024, 11:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Any tips on how to create a pdf file out of this? I'm so not
computer literate beyond sending emails, typing documents and
browsing emails and the internet.
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