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#Post#: 30711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: highchiro
Date: July 22, 2024, 1:39 pm
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Newjudge thats pretty fair response. Horrible situation admit
genuinely believing my sister was insured when I find out today
she wasnt, and get stuck with 6 points and £300, or have made a
"mistake" as the police are suggesting and get a speed awareness
course. It is coercive IMO as it does encourage someone not to
tell the truth.
I get they must get many people trying it on, but from the
otherside it certainly encourages the genuine ones to be
untruthful.
Is genuinely being told by the borrower they are insured (to be
fair without me doing any further checks) actually a defence for
this?
I suppose I need legal advice.
Thanks eveyone who has replied.
#Post#: 30713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 22, 2024, 2:01 pm
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Sorry, it’s only coercive on someone inclined to lie… as noted
the wording is due to the number of people who claim a foreign
driver as a ‘wizard wheeze’ to get off their own speeding
offence, you know you named the right person so this can’t be
considered coercive.
You know who was driving, to lie now carries the very real risk
of circa twelve months in prison, so the reality is you’re going
to have to accept you messed up and take the punishment (and
hideous insurance premiums coming).
#Post#: 30715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 22, 2024, 2:19 pm
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--- Quote from: highchiro link ---
>
> Is genuinely being told by the borrower they are insured (to
be fair without me doing any further checks) actually a defence
for this?
--- End Quote ---
Unlikely.
--- Quote ---
> I suppose I need legal advice.
>
--- End Quote ---
You just had it, for free too!
#Post#: 30720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 22, 2024, 3:26 pm
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Case law on permitting is inconsistent. In a case where the
driver told the keeper that they were insured and asked to
borrow the car, it was found that the permission was conditional
upon the driver being insured, and as they were not, the implied
condition was not satisfied and therefore permission had not
been given. In another case, the keeper asked the driver if they
were insured and the driver incorrectly told the keeper that
they were. The permission in that case was found not to be
conditional. It is widely considered that the second case was
wrongly decided.
#Post#: 30797--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: peodude
Date: July 23, 2024, 7:17 am
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--- Quote from: highchiro link ---
>
> I suspect that wont wash as the letter I have had sent to me
says "its unlikely if the hold a policy where they live, that it
would cover them to drive in this country". And turns out they
are right.
>
--- End Quote ---
Maybe, maybe not. But lets not shoot yourself in the foot just
yet. If anything it shows that your belief they was insured was
in good faith. Let them make the decision. They might just
accept it with the other documents they've asked for.
In the meantime, i'd get the driver to ask for a recording from
the insurance company from when they phoned and confirmed drive
other car was in place. The key word is 'permitting' you did not
permit it, teh driver not only told you they was insured they
took additional steps to check they was insured. That is not a
defence for them, but it is a defence point for you.
The reason for the letter saying 'are you sure' is because a
number of people name a foreign driver to try and get out of it
when it was them themselves driving, the letter is a chance for
them to see the error of their ways. Hence the request to see
proof they was in the country. Obviously in your case it is
genuine.
#Post#: 30833--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: ManxTom
Date: July 23, 2024, 12:07 pm
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--- Quote from: peodude link ---
>
>
> ... In the meantime, i'd get the driver to ask for a recording
from the insurance company from when they phoned and confirmed
drive other car was in place. The key word is 'permitting' you
did not permit it, teh driver not only told you they was insured
they took additional steps to check they was insured. That is
not a defence for them, but it is a defence point for you...
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't it a problem that the US insurance company never cofirmed
that the OP's sister was covered because - for some God unknown
reason - she never thought to mention she was visiting the UK
and that that was where the cover was needed? Any recording
from the insurance company is likely to confirm that she wasn't
covered rather than that she was.
I'm all for the OP pleading not guilty - if charged with
permitting to drive without insurance - on the basis that his
sister assured him that she was covered and he had no reason to
disbelieve her. But I don't think a recording from the US
insurer is likely to help that plea.
I'd also be concerend that a court might consider that most UK
drivers would know that a US policy would not cover someone
driving in the UK.
(If I were the OP I'd want my sister to pay any fines and
increased costs stemming from this...)
#Post#: 30839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 23, 2024, 12:37 pm
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--- Quote ---
> ...The key word is 'permitting' you did not permit it,...
--- End Quote ---
So was the vehicle taken without consent, then?
#Post#: 30842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 23, 2024, 12:53 pm
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It's not boolean ("binary" now has it's own meaning).
If the OP's sister believed that she was insured, then she
believed that the implied condition of the permission was
satisfied and therefore believed that she had his consent.
Whether she would be able to understand the previous sentence is
another matter.
#Post#: 30936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Allowing Uninsured Driver to Drive Car.
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:40 am
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It would help, if you intend to defend it, to get a witness
statement from the driver explaining her side of things. The
problem is that the prosecution may contest the statement which
would require her to attend but if it was kept fairly neutral
and not make too many assertions it would help the case I think
and may be less likely to be contested.
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