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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 30598--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 21, 2024, 10:52 am
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You will have received the evidence that the prosecution intend
to use, i.e. the officer’s statement. The prosecution isn’t
obliged to disclose evidence to you, at this stage, that they do
not intend to use; neither are they obliged to use any body cam
evidence etc.
If you plead not guilty, the prosecution will review the
evidence and will disclose to you anything that they intend to
use, that undermines the prosecution case, or which supports
your defence (assuming you’ve told them what it is). What other
evidence there is that matches those criteria, who knows?
If you want anything else, you can ask for it but the
prosecution don’t have to give it to you. In that case, you
would have to convince the court that it ought to be given to
you and make an application for a court order.
#Post#: 30866--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 23, 2024, 2:46 pm
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Hello guys
So after speaking with my solicitor he's adviced me to plead not
guilty for both offenses and then wait for the evidence they may
have first (if any). Only then we can know where to go from
their. He did say you can plead guilty at any time later in the
process but won't be able to plead not guilty so i thought that
would be the best option for now. So waiting on evidence and go
from there.
#Post#: 30896--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 24, 2024, 2:07 am
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--- Quote from: Hussnainh8 link ---
>
> He did say you can plead guilty at any time later in the
process
>
--- End Quote ---
This is true, but hopefully he also told you that the further
into the process you go the smaller the discount will be off the
fine? Also as the surcharge is a percentage (40%) of the fine
that will increase as well.
33% discount now, 25% after the first hearing (which will be the
single justice 'hearing' you can't attend) and 10% after trial
starts. Also that prosecution costs will increase up to over
£600 (if found or plead guilty) if the trial starts.
#Post#: 30944--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:53 am
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Yes that's all sound to me.. Just one of them things.. Why would
I plead guilty before knowing what evidence there is against me.
Better of atleast knowing what evidence there is then going
guilty or not guilty.
#Post#: 30958--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 24, 2024, 6:32 am
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--- Quote from: Hussnainh8 link ---
>
> Why would I plead guilty before knowing what evidence there is
against me.
>
--- End Quote ---
If you know/knew you were guilty then it's a gamble to take it
to court in the hope they can't prove it, most people do know if
they are guilty or not and aim to minimise the financial impact
of their offence.
#Post#: 30974--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 24, 2024, 8:48 am
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--- Quote from: Hussnainh8 link ---
>
> Why would I plead guilty before knowing what evidence there is
against me....
>
--- End Quote ---
But we've established that you already have the evidence that
the police intend to rely on to convict you. It's provided
precisely so that you can decide on your plea. You are unlikely
to get much - if anything else. What else you you think they
have that might either undermine their case or assist yours?
#Post#: 30982--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Nevermind
Date: July 24, 2024, 10:15 am
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You say you were driving slower than you should in lane 3, and
they were in lane 4
Was there anything in lane 1 and 2?
If not, this may have contributed to their taking an interest in
your driving and may contribute to the "without due care" (note
- it's not "with undue care")
If there was, did they have take any avoiding action when you
swerved?
#Post#: 31039--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:05 pm
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--- Quote from: The Rookie link ---
>
> [quote author=Hussnainh8 link=topic=2572.msg30944#msg30944
date=1721818427]
> Why would I plead guilty before knowing what evidence there is
against me.
>
--- End Quote ---
If you know/knew you were guilty then it's a gamble to take it
to court in the hope they can't prove it, most people do know if
they are guilty or not and aim to minimise the financial impact
of their offence.
[/quote]
I understand but as much as they have given me these offences I
feel as if I wasn't guilty as YES I twitched and swerved a
little but it was only as they where in lane 4 next to me
matching speeds at around 65mph staring at me at 8.30pm at night
so yes I did panick a little and get scared as its not normal
behaviour for someone to just drive next to you for no reason. I
feel like it was more provoked than my doing but that I guess I
will leave to the judge to decide if I'm guilty for doing it or
not (In the possible chance they may understand where im coming
from and possibly reduce the penalty to just a fine rather than
points too)
The phone yes a text was sent through my phone I get that but it
was literally done using Google assistant and I did not need to
touch my phone to do it as its all voice commanded. The phone
was already unlocked with satnav on and phone was on door panel
to the right. The officer could have easily mistaken that with
me holding the phone in my hand so unless they can show a
picture or video of me using the phone why would I plead guilty
for it.
The lawyer I went to said if they have photographic or video
evidence then they should show it to me which is normally on a
disc etc. I have sent the sjpn back so I'm waiting to hear from
them again and possibly to see the evidence against me (yes the
officers statement is against me but last time I checked life
didn't work on he said she said stories).
#Post#: 31041--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Nevermind link ---
>
> You say you were driving slower than you should in lane 3, and
they were in lane 4
>
> Was there anything in lane 1 and 2?
>
> If not, this may have contributed to their taking an interest
in your driving and may contribute to the "without due care"
(note - it's not "with undue care")
>
> If there was, did they have take any avoiding action when you
swerved?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes cars in lane 1 and 2 as I remember when the unmarked police
car was behind me I had to over take a lorry in the 3rd lane. In
lane 3 they described me as driving "much slower" but I was
doing minimum 60mph. The reason they took interest in my car was
Purely because it was a blacked out tinted vw jetta which just
looked like a "dodgy dealer" car. In their eyes they probably
saw it and thought jackpot! Then when they pulled me over and
realised I had the insurance tax etc sorted there wasn't much to
knick me for so took their chances on these 2 offenses instead.
That's why I would like to atleast see some picture or video
(body cam footage), maybe even a camera attached to the front of
their vehicle to show me swerve as the officer states I swerved
before he approached me and I say I swerved only when they where
to the side of me. I guess in the eye of the court a swerve is a
swerve at the end of the day but the officer should atleast get
his story right then shouldn't he?
#Post#: 31042--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 24, 2024, 5:21 pm
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--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> [quote author=Hussnainh8 link=topic=2572.msg30944#msg30944
date=1721818427]
> Why would I plead guilty before knowing what evidence there is
against me....
>
--- End Quote ---
But we've established that you already have the evidence that
the police intend to rely on to convict you. It's provided
precisely so that you can decide on your plea. You are unlikely
to get much - if anything else. What else you you think they
have that might either undermine their case or assist yours?
[/quote]
My lawyer told me he would put a request for evidence in as he
believes if they recorded bodycam footage then it should be part
of the evidence and possibly any other evidence they may have
(possible a camera footage of my car swerving)? And then going
by the evidence we can decide if it's better to just give up and
plead guilty or fight it. I thought it was the logical thing to
do as well so therefore pleading not guilty for both offenses
until we have seen (if there's any) any evidence and if there is
no other evidence and it's my word against his then
realistically someone could have easily been mistaken at any
time... After all it was dark at night, very hard to see as it
is especially out the side with limo black tints and doing
speeds of 60mph.
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