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DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
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#Post#: 30571--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 21, 2024, 4:42 am
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Sorry I hadn't noticed you have an SJPN.
Yes, the evidence should be served along with that notice. If it
has not, contact the police.
In the event you are convicted of both offences you will not get
points for both of them. You will only get points for the most
serious, which in your case will almost certainly be the mobile
phone offence (from your description, you are unlikely to see
more than six points imposed for careless driving). This of
course will still see you facing a "totting up" ban" so the only
way to avoid that is to avoid conviction for the phone charge.
You should be aware of the potential cost of failure. You will
face an income related fine of half a week's net income for each
offence. You will also pay a surcharge of 40% of the total
fines. The court may reduce this a little since the offences
were committed at the same time, but you cannot depend on it.
The prosecution will ask for costs which will be around £650. So
if you have an income of £500 per week you are looking at a
total of around £1,350.
You need the evidence before you can decide whether either
charge is worth challenging.
Are you aware that you can avoid a "totting up" ban if you can
convince the court that you or others will suffer "exceptional
hardship" if you are disqualified?
#Post#: 30572--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 5:03 am
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Thank you for reply, I will call police on Monday to get the
evidence they may have against me first and I'm aware of the
exceptional hardship but still feel like having to show 12
points on a insurance will make the prices through the roof so I
may still not be able to get insured at all and I rely on the
car for work as well as have motor trade insurance which is all
for work so it wouldn't be possible to get insured again through
motor trade if I was given 12 points to declare.
I wanted to be clear on if court can prove me as guilty just
based on what the officer/s has to say or do they require actual
evidence of claims made against me. Such as a picture of my car
wheels in the 4th lane or a picture of me holding my phone
whilst driving.
Also how likely is a court to believe my story that yes the text
was sent before getting stopped but the text was sent using
hands free feature rather than me physically sending it myself
whilst driving and that the swerving into other lane wasn't
because of sending a text hands free it was because the unmarked
car came up along side me at 70mph which I panicked as I was
looking wondering why this car has just pulled along side me.
And the only reason I didn't admit or deny at the time of being
stopped me handling the phone was I was in a state of shock as
all kinds of claims where being thrown at me so I was just sat
there confused where to start. There was even a point his
colleague came saying "shall we do a search on him?" as they
assumed I may even have been hiding something illegal! Granted
the car looked the part with its blacked out windows and dark
grey paintwork but I mean they could have easily done me for the
tints and said they are illegal (which I would have accepted a
fine for as I bought the car from auction like that) rather than
accusing me of the phone which he saw me using at 70mph in the
dark around 8.20pm in my right hand with the front windows
blacked out. I'm also dark skinned so there's no chance he could
have seen my hands on my phone in those conditions.
#Post#: 30574--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 5:14 am
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Without officers having proof of me on the phone how likely are
the courts to believe my story the text was sent handsfree or
would they just go by what the officer says?
Im also not sure if to plead guilty or not gluity for careless
driving as the only reason I swerved a little was because they
came up alongside me matching speeds etc and I got frightened as
it's not normal for someone to just come alongside you on a
motorway. I wouldn't want any points for that as well ideally
but if I have to take the hit on something then yes I rather
agree to swerving because end of the day I did swerve out of
getting scared.
#Post#: 30576--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: 666
Date: July 21, 2024, 5:25 am
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--- Quote from: Hussnainh8 link ---
>
>
> I wanted to be clear on if court can prove me as guilty just
based on what the officer/s has to say or do they require actual
evidence of claims made against me. Such as a picture of my car
wheels in the 4th lane or a picture of me holding my phone
whilst driving.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
The officers' statements ARE evidence, as is anything you choose
to say. The court has to decide which evidence is more credible.
BTW the careless driving may not just be about swerving, but
also driving in lane 3 if lanes 1 and 2 were free.
#Post#: 30579--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 5:39 am
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Okay that's fine... I will get the. Solicitor to check it all
out and see what he thinks. 1 and 2 lanes had cars in them.. 3
and 4 where near empty.
#Post#: 30580--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: slapdash
Date: July 21, 2024, 5:43 am
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Is there any way you can establish from your phone that the text
was sent via voice command. It might be in your Google assistant
history. That could help.
Of course there are many other things you could have also been
doing with your phone.
#Post#: 30585--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 21, 2024, 7:19 am
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--- Quote ---
> Okay that's fine... I will get the. Solicitor to check it all
out and see what he thinks.
--- End Quote ---
Have you already engaged a solicitor to deal with this?
I'm also a bit confused about the evidence. You said this:
--- Quote ---
> I haven't got any of the evidence they may have so can't see
what they are relying on?
--- End Quote ---
And this:
--- Quote ---
> Is the evidence supposed to be shown to me with the single
justice procedure notice as I haven't got any of the evidence
they may have so can't see what they are relying on?
--- End Quote ---
But prior to that you said this:
--- Quote ---
> Just to clarify the exact wording of the officers statement
reads...
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 30587--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 9:20 am
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It's been 4 months since the stop and the car is sold as well as
the phone lcd broke so I bought a new one. If I had the car I
could have taken pictures to show the tints front and back and
it would be obvious that you can't see through the car in the
dark especially at 70mph. If I had the phone I could have showed
the Google assistant history but the phone's broken as well and
not sure if it will go back 4 months from now.
The single justice procedure has a copy of the officer statement
and I remember he had a body cam on and was recording a video as
well except there's no video evidence to show anything.
I didn't realise the statement was evidence so the statement is
the only evidence I have received. At this time it just seems
like a he said she said type of scenario.
#Post#: 30589--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 9:31 am
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Are there any exceptions for the swerving offence? Something
such as saw debris in the road or avoiding a pothole etc?
#Post#: 30591--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 21, 2024, 9:44 am
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--- Quote from: Hussnainh8 link ---
>
> Something such as saw debris in the road or avoiding a pothole
etc?
>
--- End Quote ---
Given that neither of those things are true based on what you
told us before, no.
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