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#Post#: 30475--------------------------------------------------
2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 19, 2024, 6:16 pm
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Hello guys
Could someone advice me on how likely a not guilty plea would
stand in court for the following offences dated 19/03/24, letter
received today 20/07/24
1) driving with undue care and attention
2) using a mobile phone whilst driving
So the story from my side of how I see things is that I was
going along the motorway at night and see a car pull alongside
me, I panicked a little and did swerve a little as i got a
little scared as to why this car was just driving alongside me
all of a sudden. I then realised it was 2 fellas in a unmarked
car and I had then assumed they probably where checking the
vehicle and driver etc to see if they could find anything dodgy
(looked like a dodgy car.. Possible ex drugs car etc I don't
know).
Now the car was a VW Jetta with blacked out windows front and
back (pretty much limo black front and back) and before anyone
says "your asking to get pulled over". I literally won the car
at a auction 2.5 hours away from my home town as I'm a car
trader and went to collect the car and drive it back. I did not
know windows are tinted etc and I was fully insured with trade
plates on display and mot etc all there driving the car back to
my yard. Assuming it would be fine and worst case I get pulled
and a slap on wrist for the tints or possible fine which at the
time was fine as I wasted fuel and time getting there to collect
the car in the first place.
So after they pulled along side me they then backed off and
pulled into my lane tailgating me, I overtook a lorry which they
followed and then they went and overtook me and turned the
lights on indicating to stop.
So pulled up on the side and was asked why I thought I been
stopped which I said possibly insurance purposes as the car is
on trade so won't show up on the system etc. He replied "No you
where driving dangerously and you where on your phone (which he
insists he saw my fingers on the keypad through the blacked out
windows at night from his car into mine at 70mph!) I can see the
phone on your passenger seat with the satnav up and back light
lit up, you where sending texts whilst driving so you can show
me your recent apps and the message you where sending". His
fella with him was already throwing questions "shall we do a
search on him" as if I had drugs stashed up somewhere. So I was
literally in a state of panic at the time and I did end up
showing the message and yes a text was sent 2 minutes before
which I didn't admit or deny at the time as I was all confused
as all kinds of accusations where flying across at me, no
Insurance, dangerous driving, no tax, searching me for god knows
what and phone use.. I was just trying to process everything at
the time so as they where talking I just didn't say anything. I
kind of thought whatever I say won't change anything anyway as I
feel I'm being picked on.
Long story short I did send a text however it was all done using
the handheld "OK Google" command at the time paired up via
Bluetooth to the cars after market stereo so all totally hands
free. The phone was on the passenger seat with the background
light lit up as the satnav app was open and the Bluetooth
plugged into the stereo so I could hear the directions through
the cars speakers. Did not have a phone holder, I normally take
one with me when collecting the cars and sometimes I do end up
forgetting to take it with me so the phone had to sit on the
seat for the journey.
Now I can admit I swerved a little after seeing the car pull up
along side me but that was only in the state of panic wondering
what's going on why suddenly a cars next to me all dark at night
couldn't see as it is which I would imagine anyone could do as
it's not normal for cars to just pull up along side you at 70mph
in the dark on a motorway!
So would I be able to plead not guilty for these offences is my
simple question I wanted to ask. At the time it all happened I
felt as if whatever I would have said to the fellas it just
wouldn't have changed anything. Literally driving around at
night with blacked out windows in a car that looks like a dealer
would be using, I felt like I was picked on purely for the looks
of the car as it looked dodgy so they thought yes let's follow
that one there and at that point they where just coming to get
me for whatever they could find.
I don't really know what to think of this as I'm not wanting the
points for phone or driving dangerously and with there being 2
officers I guess they will both support each other's statements
and I don't have a witness so my word against 2 officers. I know
for certain they don't have any photographic evidence to show
such as me being on the phone whilst driving (pitch black
windows, dark at night so physically won't see my hands on the
screen.. I also swerved whilst along side them so they won't
have any video to show me swerving in that moment and I also
didn't admit or deny at the time any of the offenses they
brought upon me. I was just assuming I was being pulled for a
car and driver check as car wouldn't be on the insurance system
etc but in their eyes they saw a blacked out car with possible
drugs or something dodgy going on.
Already on 6 points for speeding (learnt my lesson and never
again) but I really can't afford another 6 for phone use as I
will be on a ban then.
#Post#: 30507--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: AntonyMMM
Date: July 20, 2024, 5:51 am
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--- Quote from: Hussnainh8 link ---
>
> I'm not wanting the points for phone or driving dangerously
>
>
> Already on 6 points for speeding (learnt my lesson and never
again) but I really can't afford another 6 for phone use as I
will be on a ban then.
>
--- End Quote ---
You have every right to enter a Not Guilty plea and defend the
case at court - if you don't then you will be getting 6 points
for the phone use, and will be looking at a 6 month totting ban.
But you do need to be aware that the costs of a not guilty trial
(if you lose) can be substantial.
#Post#: 30508--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 20, 2024, 6:01 am
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I understand the costs will be high.. I'm just trying to see
what my chances are of being not guilty before I go ahead and do
a not guilty plea. Would the court agree with there not being
sufficient evidence or would it just be a 2 officers word
against mine because if that will be the case then I have no
chance of winning but if it goes by hard photographic evidence
then I may stand a chance as I know there's no real documented
evidence to show me on my phone or driving dangerously etc.
#Post#: 30509--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: 666
Date: July 20, 2024, 6:18 am
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OP, what have you actually received? Is it a request for
driver's details, or a Single Justice Procedure Notice?
BTW you haven't been accused of "driving dangerously", just
carelessly, which is much less serious.
#Post#: 30550--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 20, 2024, 4:59 pm
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Sorry for the late reply been at work, I received a single
justice procedure notice, being charged for 2 offenses which are
driving with undue care and attention and also using a mobile
phone whilst driving.
I would like to know how likely of a chance I have to win a not
guilty plea. if I was to deny the offenses. In the statement
from the officer (who was driving passenger in unmarked car) he
states he saw me pressing the buttons on the phone sending a
text whilst driving and as he came up behind me he saw the
vehicle swerve into the 4th lane with the 2 tyres going into the
4th lane and then correcting myself back into the 3rd lane.
In my defense I can admit I swerved but it was only because they
where approaching me to the side of me and matching speed with
me at 70mph so I panicked a little as its not normal for a car
to just pull alongside you on a motorway. My phone was lit on
the passenger seat as I had the satnav up and the car was fully
tinted front and back so maybe the officer could have mistaken a
text message for the satnav and saw the back light assuming I am
using the phone. When I was stopped I did show recent messages
and a text was sent 2 minutes before I was stopped however I
sent that via hands free feature all connected up to the cars
aftermarket stereo. So it would be a their word against mine
sort of situation so I just want to know how this would go about
in court. I am already on 6 points and can't afford another 6 or
a ban!
At the absolute worst case if I have to accept 1 of the offences
I would accept careless driving as I did swerve out of panicking
and corrected myself straight away but I really don't want to go
down for using a mobile phone so someone please advice me on
this, desperate needs, I would be very greatful.
#Post#: 30551--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 20, 2024, 5:27 pm
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Just to clarify the exact wording of the officers statement
reads they where driving in lane 4 of 4 whilst I was in lane 3
of 4 and I was doing a slower speed than I should have been
doing and then as they came up to the rear of my car I swerved
which the officer driving had to brake to avoid collision and
then when they came up along side me the officer in passenger
saw a mobile phone in my right hand sending a text.
After stopping me he saw the phone on the passenger seat lit up
with the satnav on and he asked to me show the recent messages
which I did and he saw a text was sent on the phone 2 minutes
before being stopped. At the time I didn't agree or deny it I
stayed quite as not only was I being accused of phone use, I was
also being told the car had no insurance or tax and that I drove
carelessly as well as his friend shouting from behind shall we
do a search on him as if I had drugs stashed up somewhere so I
was just at the point thinking whatever I say won't make a
difference here as they are just fully out there to get me
anyway.
I just want to know how his word against mine will go about in
court. Yes he saw a message on my phone that was sent before we
stopped but who was to stay I actually sent it physically
touching the phone unless he has a picture of me using it, it
could literally have been sent using the OK Google command which
all Android phones have.
I think the phone even has history for the commands so I may
even have a record of the text sent using the command, could
that be enough proof to show it was sent handsfree?
#Post#: 30553--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 20, 2024, 5:38 pm
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The court will either believe the officer(s) or believe you.
Nobody here can say which way they’ll go.
#Post#: 30567--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 21, 2024, 4:06 am
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--- Quote ---
> At the absolute worst case if I have to accept 1 of the
offences I would accept careless driving...
--- End Quote ---
You don't get the choice to "decline" the offences (other than
by pleading Not Guilty in court). If the police persist with
both allegations they are unlikely to offer you fixed penalties
and that means you will be prosecuted in court anyway. Before
you enter a plea you should be served with the evidence the
police intend to rely on to convict you. You can then see what
the officers' statements say and decide on your pleas.
#Post#: 30569--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 4:22 am
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Is the evidence supposed to be shown to me with the single
justice procedure notice as I haven't got any of the evidence
they may have so can't see what they are relying on?
I would rather fight it as I'm already at 6 points so even if I
receive fixed penalty I'm looking easy 3 points on careless
driving and 6 points for mobile phone use so that would put me
at 15 points which I would be banned for so if there's a chance
to fight I rather take it.
#Post#: 30570--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 motoring offences
DIR By: Hussnainh8
Date: July 21, 2024, 4:40 am
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I tried going through the online plea but it doesn't show any
evidence they may have. The system asks me if I'm pleading
guilty or not guilty straight away and doesn't show any evidence
before I make the plea.. Do I have to call the office for the
evidence or?
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