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#Post#: 30246--------------------------------------------------
Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag - Lincoln
(monks road)
DIR By: ns2002
Date: July 18, 2024, 9:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
My mum is a care worker, she was parked 80% into a bay with her
back wheels on zig zags whilst waiting for the pharmacy to open
for one of her clients. There was no car in front of her. Whilst
she was waiting for the pharmacy to open, a CEO gave her a
ticket for parking on zig zags, when she explained that she
could just move forward 2-3ft, the CEO did not care. She offered
to do this, the CEO said it did not matter and she was getting a
ticket regardless.
The PCN in full is attached with the PCN number and reg blanked
out but reading the top of the page, the faq, it says to leave
it in. I will do this if needed.
EDIT: file too big wont attach, see link here for pcn:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tkKfe0cOhYnsRc8hJSaY4R-MVt93hzwK/view?usp=drive_link
back side:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
Google maps link:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/L8tYBw4iy5o8mpHu7
- she was parked right
next to the sign of parking rules.
I have noticed the PCN says green, car is blue, doubt it make a
difference.
I hope I have filled this all out correctly, please let me know
a way we can get this cancelled. We have not replied to them at
all yet.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/MSTXLzG.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/KVUiYXg.png
#Post#: 30250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 18, 2024, 9:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There are more photos, surely?
Pl either post these or supply the PCN and VRM and we can look
ourselves.
In any event, IMO the degree of incursion is greater than would
be accepted by an adjudicator as 'de minimis'(legal term AKA too
trifling to worry about) so your mother's* only plea is for
discretion. However, an adjudicator may not exercise discretion
and therefore this would have to be targeted at the council.
The reason I've leapt ahead to adjudication is because
discretion cannot be considered and therefore absent prospective
procedural errors on the council's part, which wouldn't become
evident until the statutory discount has lapsed, the discount
should be kept in mind. You should know that a 'section 25
crossing', which this is, does not require a traffic order and
therefore this - often fruitful- line of enquiry is closed off.
If this council re-offers the discounted sum even after
unsuccessful formal reps then the matter could be taken to this
stage at least - the stage where most procedural improprieties
manifest themselves.
'Could have moved forward', then why didn't she? Did this space
only arise while she was parked, if so, for how long was she
parked?
*- is you mother the registered keeper with current DVLA
details?
#Post#: 30254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: ns2002
Date: July 18, 2024, 10:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> There are more photos, surely?
>
> Pl either post these or supply the PCN and VRM and we can look
ourselves.
>
> In any event, IMO the degree of incursion is greater than
would be accepted by an adjudicator as 'de minimis'(legal term
AKA too trifling to worry about) so your mother's* only plea is
for discretion. However, an adjudicator may not exercise
discretion and therefore this would have to be targeted at the
council.
>
> The reason I've leapt ahead to adjudication is because
discretion cannot be considered and therefore absent prospective
procedural errors on the council's part, which wouldn't become
evident until the statutory discount has lapsed, the discount
should be kept in mind. You should know that a 'section 25
crossing', which this is, does not require a traffic order and
therefore this - often fruitful- line of enquiry is closed off.
If this council re-offers the discounted sum even after
unsuccessful formal reps then the matter could be taken to this
stage at least - the stage where most procedural improprieties
manifest themselves.
>
> 'Could have moved forward', then why didn't she? Did this
space only arise while she was parked, if so, for how long was
she parked?
>
> *- is you mother the registered keeper with current DVLA
details?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I've added the full pcn onto the main post with vrm and pcn
number kept in, link here also:
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tkKfe0cOhYnsRc8hJSaY4R-MVt93hzwK/view?usp=drive_link
She could've and offered to move forward, but the ceo did not
care and said she was getting a ticket regardless.
She was in the car for around 3 minutes before the CEO arrived
stating she was going to get a ticket, and once she had the
conversation with them she moved forward the 2-3ft as previously
stated. there was plenty of space at all time. Definitely enough
to be fully within the bay.
She is the registered keeper and all details are current.
I've added the only other photo as they've supplied.
#Post#: 30263--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 18, 2024, 12:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
IMO, that photo doesn't suggest there was room to move forward -
and unless you were there then you don't have first-hand
knowledge.
In any event, as regards the contravention IMO the argument goes
to mitigation only.
Pl post the back of the PCN where most of the procedural parts
have to appear.
#Post#: 30266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: ns2002
Date: July 18, 2024, 12:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> IMO, that photo doesn't suggest there was room to move forward
- and unless you were there then you don't have first-hand
knowledge.
>
> In any event, as regards the contravention IMO the argument
goes to mitigation only.
>
> Pl post the back of the PCN where most of the procedural parts
have to appear.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here's the link to the back of the PCN
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
There was enough room as she moved forward right after the
conversation.
#Post#: 30281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 18, 2024, 1:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your link supposedly to the back of the PCN only shows the front
of it.
We need to see the back, because we don't often see Lincolnshire
PCNs so there may be fatal errors in the small print that render
it void. The content of a PCN is defined in law.
#Post#: 30285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: ns2002
Date: July 18, 2024, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Your link supposedly to the back of the PCN only shows the
front of it.
>
> We need to see the back, because we don't often see
Lincolnshire PCNs so there may be fatal errors in the small
print that render it void. The content of a PCN is defined in
law.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ah sorry, I must've copied the wrong link.
This is the back of the pcn.
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
#Post#: 30289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lincolnshire County Council - 99 Parking on zig zag -
Lincoln (monks road)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 18, 2024, 3:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ns2002 link ---
>
> [quote author=Incandescent link=topic=2549.msg30281#msg30281
date=1721327987]
> Your link supposedly to the back of the PCN only shows the
front of it.
>
> We need to see the back, because we don't often see
Lincolnshire PCNs so there may be fatal errors in the small
print that render it void. The content of a PCN is defined in
law.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ah sorry, I must've copied the wrong link.
This is the back of the pcn.
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u0rd7_WR7CcfmTRdB089paYd7v8bQJbB/view?usp=sharing
[/quote]
The PCN small print seems OK.
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