DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 30131--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: The Rookie
Date: July 17, 2024, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 8vaibhav link ---
>
> I know these Operators mostly act as savages trying earns
money of innocents but doesn't this keeper/driver anomaly, leave
room for system-abuse, as in should one NEVER pay parking
charges if they have some free time to challenge any PCNs which
may come up?
>
--- End Quote ---
There is statute (Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
2012) that permits parking companies to hold keepers liable so
--- Quote ---
> doesn't this keeper/driver anomaly, leave room for
system-abuse, as in should one NEVER pay parking charges
--- End Quote ---
Isn't true, as it's not NEVER.
However there are occasions (and hire/lease/fleet cars are a
common one) where the parking companies fail to meet the
requirements of PoFA so can only hold the driver liable. That
failure is wholly within their own powers to fix but they chose
not to, probably as most people, like you were, are ignorant of
both contract law (where ONLY the driver could be liable - never
the keeper*) and PoFA (allowing the transfer of liability under
STRICT regulation) and 'give up' their legal protections
naively.
Before PoFA was enacted ONLY the driver could be liable, yet
circa 2/3's of people just paid the invoices regardless.
*Private parking notices fall under contract law, the parking
company offer a parking contract (on the signs) the driver can
chose to accept that contract 'by performance' (the act of
parking) or decline (by leaving) the keeper is a complete
stranger to that and would have no liability at all, ever. This,
as I said was changed (and is a specific and unique modification
to contract law for parking) by PoFA.
#Post#: 30134--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 17, 2024, 4:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 8vaibhav link ---
>
> 2nd more relevant question, based on the broken parking
machine, confusing PayByPhone screenshot and signage and having
paid £60 on one PCN, am I likely to win if this were perused
further by ParkingEye? (I definitely expect they will send all
possible automated letters at the very least)
--- End Quote ---
The fact you have paid a different PCN is of no relevance to
this one. Two separate parking events = two separate contracts
allegedly formed.
It's hard to advise on your chances really, courts aren't always
predictable. I can't see any "slam dunk" defences - I think the
main thing you would need to clarify is why no payment was made
via the PayByPhone app. You mention that it was confusing, but
from your opening post it seems like you found an option that
would have allowed you to pay the tariff for one overnight stay:
--- Quote ---
> It was asking £15.20
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 30135--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: mickR
Date: July 17, 2024, 4:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> but from your opening post it seems like you found an option
that would have allowed you to pay the tariff for one overnight
stay:
> [quote]It was asking £15.20
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
I think you'll find that option only applies "out of hours" ie
after 10pm
the OP was there before that and therefore could not use the
overnight option
#Post#: 30138--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: July 17, 2024, 5:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> It's hard to advise on your chances really, courts aren't
always predictable. I can't see any "slam dunk" defences - I
think the main thing you would need to clarify is why no payment
was made via the PayByPhone app. You mention that it was
confusing, but from your opening post it seems like you found an
option that would have allowed you to pay the tariff for one
overnight stay:
> [quote]It was asking £15.20
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Hello, yes so getting to the nuts and bolts of this. Parking was
free for 2hours and "overnight charges" apply it said if longer
than 2. Sure.. but then the signage (shared earlier in the
thread) also says "Upto 9 hours £15.00". So overnight charges
apply but that same is less than 9 hours somehow, I suppose they
would send PCN if someone paid and exceeded 9 hours. I found it
very confusing that overnight is 9hours.
Then on PayByPhone App, it didn't mention this 9 hour limit at
all, it allowed to select multiple days, say I selected "2 days"
what would it mean if only 9 hours is allowed in one stretch. I
just thought I better not use the App and pay on the machine but
turns out that was "out of service" which POPLA agrees to also
but doesn't seems to make a different to their decision.
Also, may I add, when I received the first PCN, I thought I
should pay for the 2nd incident on a delayed basis, but there
was no option to do the same, only option was to wait for 2nd
PCN..
#Post#: 30150--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: b789
Date: July 17, 2024, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So, if you are aggrieved enough to want to fight this, you can
ignore the POPLA decision and wait and see if/when they try to
take you to court for this alleged debt.
You can argue the CRA 2015 and ask a judge to decide whether you
owe the PPC a debt or not.
Consumer Rights Act 2015
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents
In particular, have a look at Chapter 4 and Part 2 "Unfair
Terms". Loads of juicy stuff in there for a defence.
#Post#: 30155--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 17, 2024, 6:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: mickR link ---
>
> I think you'll find that option only applies "out of hours" ie
after 10pm
> the OP was there before that and therefore could not use the
overnight option
>
--- End Quote ---
Quite right - my mistake, was looking at the wrong month in my
calendar and thought it was a Sunday!
In which case the remaining argument (aside from any CRA ones as
referred to by b789 above) would be that the signage wasn't
clear - which I'm not sure is the strongest.
#Post#: 30157--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: July 17, 2024, 6:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> In which case the remaining argument (aside from any CRA ones
as referred to by b789 above) would be that the signage wasn't
clear - which I'm not sure is the strongest.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks much, what about no option to pay later after realizing
error and inaccessible zombi-ness if I tried contacting
ParkingEye BEFORE receiving PCN.
I am surprised a non-working Parking Machine isn't excuse
enough. I mean seriously!
You say other PCN isn't related but the delay in that one
reaching me essentially caused the 2nd identitical incident, I
suppose no legal standing on this one.
#Post#: 30162--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 17, 2024, 6:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 8vaibhav link ---
>
> I am surprised a non-working Parking Machine isn't excuse
enough. I mean seriously!
>
--- End Quote ---
The problem is, as has now been established, the signage
indicates that during the times you were there, you are only
allowed to stay for 2 hours - there is not an option to pay to
extend your time beyond this, and if you exceed the maximum
stay, you incur a parking charge of £100. Even if the parking
machine had been working, you wouldn't have been able to pay
anything, as parking was free at the time, but only for up to 2
hours.
#Post#: 30164--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: 8vaibhav
Date: July 17, 2024, 6:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=8vaibhav link=topic=2537.msg30157#msg30157
date=1721215144]
> I am surprised a non-working Parking Machine isn't excuse
enough. I mean seriously!
>
--- End Quote ---
The problem is, as has now been established, the signage
indicates that during the times you were there, you are only
allowed to stay for 2 hours - there is not an option to pay to
extend your time beyond this, and if you exceed the maximum
stay, you incur a parking charge of £100. Even if the parking
machine had been working, you wouldn't have been able to pay
anything, as parking was free at the time, but only for up to 2
hours.
[/quote]
Wait.. What? This is thoroughly confusing, why wouldn't I have
been able to pay when I had reasonable idea that I will exceed 2
hours. In fact, while leaving I knew exactly the time I had
spent and did spend effort to try and pay on the machine, would
have certainly paid if it was working, why do you say I wouldn't
have been able to. Sorry, I am so confused.
#Post#: 30165--------------------------------------------------
Re: ParkingEye issued 2 PCNs, £60 paid, POPLA appeal rejected on
another
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 17, 2024, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I haven't helped things by wrongly thinking you had parked
during the "Overnight Parking" period, so I do apologise for
that.
Here's the sign with some mark-up:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/YdVX7Em.jpeg
Essentially, different rules apply at different times. First:
2 Hours Max stay
During the times indicated (Mon-Sat: 7am-10pm, Sun/Bank Hol:
11am-5pm), parking is free, but drivers may only park for 2
hours or less.
Second:
Tariffs apply outside of these times
If you park outside those times, the 2 hour max stay does not
apply, but, there is a tariff to park, which is £15 for up to 9
hours.
Your car was parked from 18:00 to 21:01, on Saturday 16th March.
This was during the times indicated on the signage, when the
maximum stay was 2 hours. You breached this term by staying for
longer than 2 hours, contrary to the advertised terms.
Therefore, the following applies:
Failure to comply with the terms & conditions will result in a
Parking Charge of: £100
You can seek to argue that the signage doesn't make this clear -
the hurdle you will need to overcome is that the bit I have
highlighted in red does make fairly clear that between 7am-10pm
Monday-Saturday, you may only stay for 2 hours. You could try to
argue that "Tariffs apply outside of these times" could be
interpreted to mean that tariffs apply if you park longer than 2
hours - whether a judge would agree with that I don't know.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 3
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page