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#Post#: 29772--------------------------------------------------
TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: yuletwigtool--[
Date: July 13, 2024, 9:52 am
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Hi,
I received a PCN from TfL for ULEZ for 24/06/24 after visiting
my folks for the long weekend. Or more precisely I was just
informed by a phone call from the person I had recently bought a
car from (about 6 weeks ago) that they had received this PCN. We
determined that change of ownership which was done online at the
time of purchase had some not been processed by the DVLA, and
the seller immediately went online to do another transfer of
ownership backdated and sent me the confirmation, along with a
copy of the front page of the fine which was issued on the
03/70/24 - giving 'me' 14 days (until 19/07/24 according to the
PCN) in order to keep the 'discounted' fee. After I sent a chat
message back to the buyer saying that I might try to ask for
help on a forum, but would redact the address info first
(his/partner's info) and that I might need the other pages but
I'd let him know, he removed the screenshot of it, so I don't
know if he will be willing to provide the rest (though it would
probably be standard with other ULEZ fines)
My question is should this be reissued in my name before any
payment is made, and would this become automatic if the change
of ownership has been made in the database covering that period?
In addition I had thought I had made the payment for that
journey the day before when I when I had attempted to pay for my
for my inbound journey made two days earlier. I had no end of
trouble getting the payments to be processed correctly through
the TfL Android phone App and tried 3 different bank account
cards I had, I ended getting a confirmation on the final attempt
and then discovered 2 pending payments in one of my accounts
which I then had to spend an inordinate amount of time
communicating with the bank trying to find out the procedure to
rectify it, which required sending a message to TfL to get a
whole of specific details for the bank to allow these pending
transactions to be cancelled. Anyway, as a result with
everything else that I had going on I didn't remember to check
back if I had actually made the outgoing purchase for the
following day. Eventually TfL got back to me about the payment
on the 26/06/24 simply saying: 'Thank you for your
correspondence received on 23 June 2024 regarding payments.
Please be advised that pending transactions are not official
payments as we have not received the payment.
We would advise for you to contact your bank if you have made a
payment and we have not received it, so they can
investigate the situation further for you.' ..which ignored any
of the requests the bank had made🤨
At which point it triggered my thoughts about the outbound
payment which I thought I'd made amongst the confusion of the
payment process as it had been recommended by my folks to do so,
so I wouldn't forget. When I discovered it wasn't paid I wrote a
message to TfL on their App about the situation described above
and of course have heard nothing back. I guess there's probably
no chance of them considering an appeal; I got one when ULEZ
first came in (I've 'used' it only 3 times since) and back then
signs were not easily seen (nor understandable) and I live far
out of London and did not hear of anything about it having been
implemented - I received a fine that I challenged pointing out
that the signs (which I later saw from some streetview photos)
for any newly arrived visitors from overseas would be
indecipherable as well, and they dismissed me out of hand.
Thanks in advance
HTML https://i.imgur.com/no36x6U.jpeg
#Post#: 29775--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: Neil B
Date: July 13, 2024, 10:20 am
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Yes, you should receive a PCN in your name IF he submits
representations explaining that he is not the owner, otherwise
it remains his liability.
I suggest you tell him that and that he should come here if
there are any problems.
#Post#: 29782--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: July 13, 2024, 11:33 am
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Did you enter the ULEZ and leave before midnight on the same
day? Or did you enter and leave on different days?
If you arrived into and then left the ULEZ on a different day
then there is likely to be another PCN.
#Post#: 29786--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 13, 2024, 12:14 pm
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So the seller has confirmation in writing from DVLA that they
were not the registered keeper on the day of the contravention?
They also have a 'bill of sale showing the date of sale and the
name and address of the new keeper,'?
Successful representations should be straightforward.
Shouldn't they?
#Post#: 29787--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: July 13, 2024, 12:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> So the seller has confirmation in writing from DVLA that they
were not the registered keeper on the day of the contravention?
Seems so.
>
> They also have a 'bill of sale showing the date of sale and
the name and address of the new keeper,'? I'm not sure that's
confirmed anywhere as yet?
>
> Successful representations should be straightforward. The OP
does not have any PCN(s) addressed to them as yet.
>
> Shouldn't they? Perhaps, if TFL accept there were problems
with the ULEZ payment system.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 30069--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: yuletwigtool--[
Date: July 16, 2024, 12:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for everyone's replies!
--- Quote from: Neil B link ---
>
> Yes, you should receive a PCN in your name IF he submits
representations explaining that he is not the owner, otherwise
it remains his liability
>
--- End Quote ---
so I got in touch with the seller after all (I bought the car
through a mutual friend). He messaged me back after I made the
suggestion to him to get in touch with TfL to 'make
representations' that he wasn't the owner/driver, saying that
he'd gone online on the same day that he reapplied and backdated
the V5C. I did try to query that it was the PCN and not the V5C
change of ownership he was referring to and he implied that it
was.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Did you enter the ULEZ and leave before midnight on the same
day? Or did you enter and leave on different days?
>
--- End Quote ---
No it was different days - in on Fri, which was paid for on the
Sunday; out on Mon which I was also attempting to pay on the
Sunday at the same time as it was suggested by my folks so I
didn't forget but the payment process issue I had paying for the
Fri confused matters as I had thought I had done it then and
then I thought to check it and of course with a lot going on and
to be organise I forgot to check at all until I saw the email
from TfL about the payment issue
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> So the seller has confirmation in writing from DVLA that they
were not the registered keeper on the day of the contravention?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure of that, but I just received the V5C stating
registration on the 31/05/24, he also says he did the online
representations for TfL
--- Quote ---
>
> They also have a 'bill of sale showing the date of sale and
the name and address of the new keeper,'?
--- End Quote ---
Not sure about that though
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> [quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=2513.msg29786#msg29786
date=1720890863]
> So the seller has confirmation in writing from DVLA that they
were not the registered keeper on the day of the contravention?
Seems so.
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure if he would have that yet - but the V5C came thru at
least
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> They also have a 'bill of sale showing the date of sale and
the name and address of the new keeper,'? I'm not sure that's
confirmed anywhere as yet?
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> I normally get a receipt but I don't know if I did do that
this time, it was bought through a mutual friend who deals in
cars
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> Successful representations should be straightforward. The OP
does not have any PCN(s) addressed to them as yet.
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> Correct
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> Shouldn't they? Perhaps, if TFL accept there were problems
with the ULEZ payment system.
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> It would be useful for TfL to have provided the information
the bank requested that I asked them for at least
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
I don't know if it is worth trying to plead with them over the
issue of confusion of payment for the outgoing journey, that I
had thought I'd done at the same time, due to the issues of
payment processing with the various attempts for the incoming
journey.
#Post#: 30127--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: slapdash
Date: July 17, 2024, 3:54 am
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The seller seems to be reluctant to make representations?
They seem to think that having subsequently done the DVLA
transfer (with a backdated date) it will sort itself out (for
them). It won't.
They are quite likely to get in a right mess. The fact that they
were not the RK becomes utterly irrelevant.
At the moment you can choose to pay it (anybody can pay) but
don't feel minded to do so because you hope to challenge because
of the payment difficulties.
You have nothing, yet, to make representations against.
#Post#: 30255--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: yuletwigtool--[
Date: July 18, 2024, 10:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: slapdash link ---
>
> The seller seems to be reluctant to make representations?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure. I tried to clarify the point on my chat with him,
by saying 'I knew you (he) had done the V5C ownership again
online but not the PCN' and 'I guess I'll just wait now for them
to send it to me now
..unfortunately ..' to which he replied 'yeah..' So I think I've
done what I can for now I think - I have a V5C now backdated to
31/05/24
--- Quote ---
>
> They are quite likely to get in a right mess. The fact that
they were not the RK becomes utterly irrelevant.
>
--- End Quote ---
I guess the re-applied and backdated V5C will not flag up in
TfL's system at this point
--- Quote ---
>
> At the moment you can choose to pay it (anybody can pay) but
don't feel minded to do so because you hope to challenge because
of the payment difficulties.
>
--- End Quote ---
If it's worth the bother to challenge on grounds of confusion
based on the payment issues then I will wait
--- Quote ---
>
> You have nothing, yet, to make representations against.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully it will all come out in the wash in due course
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I guess it's a waiting game at this stage
#Post#: 30262--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: JoCo
Date: July 18, 2024, 11:22 am
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Surely the simplest thing to do is for OP to take the hit and
just pay the PCN.
I'd be a bit hacked off if I bought a car, and subsequently had
to deal with any admin at all, due to previous owner's speeding
ticket, PCNs etc.
The OP admits that due to time pressures they didn't check if
payment had gone through. So it's on them.
Also the OP may have left the mutual friend a bit red faced [if
they arranged the deal], no doubt thinking they were doing both
parties a favour.
#Post#: 30319--------------------------------------------------
Re: TfL - ULEZ PCN - The Vale, London
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: July 19, 2024, 3:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The vendor (or somebody) of the car has delivered
representations to TFL on the 11th July. That may result in the
transfer of liability to the buyer (ie our Original Poster), and
the OP should receive a PCN in their own name and address.
So I suggest that the OP sits tight for the moment and wait for
the outcome of the vendor's challenge. Upon receipt of the new
PCN the OP can choose to try his own challenge (representation)
or pay-up.
In the meantime I suggest that the OP sets up a TFL AutoPay
account and registers the car to it. That should, bank funds
permitting, avoid future payment problems if somebody drives the
car into the ULEZ.
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