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#Post#: 29709--------------------------------------------------
House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs issue
By: Olihorton Date: July 12, 2024, 4:44 pm
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Hi, asking for advice for a friend - the buyer.
Situation is the house they are purchasing had spray foam
insulation in the roof which their mortgage company advised
would have to be removed and replaced with non-spray foam
insulation prior to them even approving their mortgage offer.
Apparently this is not uncommon now.
Vendor and buyer went halves on the cost of this. Contractor
spoke to the council to explain what they were doing and how
they were going to re-insulate and asked if they needed to
comply with current building regs and were advised by the
council that they did not need to. Reason for this is that
current regs would mean deeper insulation than the existing
rafter depth thereby decreasing height in the roof space which
is not wanted due to it making the roof uncomfortably low.
Works now completed, mortgage company are happy and have issued
the mortgage offer, but buyer’s solicitor refuses to proceed as
she says it requires building regs approval. Buyers have stated
they are happy to proceed regardless but solicitor refuses
saying she has the mortgage company’s interests to be wary of.
Indemnity is not possible as works have been carried out in the
last 6 months.
Current only feasible solution seems to be sack current
solicitor and lose all associated fees etc and try a new one and
not disclose the insulation issue, but this will cost
significant sums not to mention the delay on an already lengthy
process to get this far. Any advice on any polite words/legal
terminology to use to “force” the solicitor to move forward
would be very welcome as surely she should only be acting in her
clients’ interests and as instructed rather than worry about the
mortgage company’s interests who have their own surveyors and
legal team to think about these things.
#Post#: 29716--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: Southpaw82 Date: July 12, 2024, 6:08 pm
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It is very common for the purchaser’s solicitor to also act for
the mortgage lender (not least because it keeps costs down for
the borrower, who would otherwise have to pay, directly or
indirectly, for the lender’s solicitor). The buyer will have
agreed to this at the outset.
The solicitor therefore has two clients - the buyer and the
lender. The solicitor will have to sign a certificate of title,
certifying to the lender that all is good with the property.
That will include compliance with building regulations. The
purchaser cannot force the solicitor to sign the certificate of
title, contrary to the instructions of the lender (who will have
provided instructions to the solicitor as to what they must be
satisfied of before they can sign the certificate of title).
The only way to resolve this, in my view, is if the solicitor
explains the situation to the lender and gets them to agree that
they can sign the certificate of title regardless of the issue
that has arisen. Going to another solicitor and not disclosing
the issue might work but that solicitor will carry out their own
checks, which might flag up the same issue. The lender might
also wonder why the solicitor has been sacked.
#Post#: 29779--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: H C Andersen Date: July 13, 2024, 10:56 am
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Contractor spoke to the council to explain what they were doing
and how they were going to re-insulate and asked if they needed
to comply with current building regs and were advised by the
council that they did not need to.
In writing, of course?
In which case, why would the solicitor take a view contrary to
the council's? It doesn't make sense IMO.
#Post#: 29797--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: Olihorton Date: July 13, 2024, 3:57 pm
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Thank you for taking the time to both read and reply to this
little pickle of a situation.
Regards the building control - this is what doesn’t make sense
to any of us. Seems to be that the solicitor does not agree with
building control, but have asked my friends raise this same
question previously and if they can have building control
confirm in writing that the works do not need to comply then on
what basis is she refusing to proceed.
I had no idea that the solicitor works for both, but fully
understand the reasons why. I suspect my friends (as I have
likely done in the past) have just signed on every dotted line
put in front of them without paying due care and diligence to
the details…
Points fully taken on board and I agree that seems to be the
most sensible solution, it’s just very strange that Building
Control have stated that the works do not need to comply with
building regs, whereas the solicitor has advised they do
creating something of an impasse which would, presumably, affect
any other buyer until
6 months have passed and an indemnity might be purchased.
One question, if I may. Given, or assumed, that the solicitor is
working on behalf of lender also, would they now be duty bound
to report this issue to the lender? I’m just wondering if my
friends take the nuclear option of sacking the current
solicitor, not declaring the works to a new solicitor etc. would
this be an absolute folly on their part as the damage, so to
speak would already have been done with the lender.
#Post#: 29799--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: Southpaw82 Date: July 13, 2024, 4:23 pm
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[quote author=Olihorton link=topic=2509.msg29797#msg29797
date=1720904259]
One question, if I may. Given, or assumed, that the solicitor is
working on behalf of lender also, would they now be duty bound
to report this issue to the lender? I’m just wondering if my
friends take the nuclear option of sacking the current
solicitor, not declaring the works to a new solicitor etc. would
this be an absolute folly on their part as the damage, so to
speak would already have been done with the lender.
[/quote]
Depends on what your friend has signed. Normally, the duty of
confidence would prevent the solicitor telling anyone else but
if a waiver has been signed they can. Of course, if the
solicitor’s duties conflict between lender and buyer, they will
cease to act for both. If that happens, it’s pretty obvious to
the lender what has happened, though they may not know the
details.
#Post#: 29804--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: Olihorton Date: July 13, 2024, 5:10 pm
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[member=4]Southpaw82[/member] thank you, again. I will get all
of your sage advice back to my friends and hope they can find a
way through to a completion.
Oh, and @H C Andersen, we’re in the wilds of North Somerset
where the notion of getting something in writing from building
control is as alien as those folk from the next village… It’s
not unheard of one BCO advising you to do one thing and once
done and needing to be signed off, a different BCO telling you
it’s non-compliant and needs to be re-done to their liking!
Still - I suspect if not in writing already, getting this would
be somewhat significant in progressing matters.
Thank you both again for your time!
#Post#: 29836--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: slapdash Date: July 14, 2024, 12:28 pm
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One issue your friend may have is being absolutely certain of
what B.C. want, but also what the lender wants.
Part L is the relevant part of the regs, but the compliance
metrics will depend upon when the building was constructed, what
renovations have been undertaken since and when, and any change
of use (if B.C. regard it as major renovation then compliance
with the current regs would be normal, otherwise the earlier
regs, and if existing insulation was not removed when foamed it
may comply).
You may need to escalate within B.C. and it may need inspection
and certificate.
There are a number of issues with foam. Roof loadings due to
weight, and rot in roof timbers are two major ones.
Some lenders will not lend even after removal taking a view that
if the foam had been installed for a significant length of time
the damage may already have been done and it cannot be easily
verified (though your friends lender seems happy).
#Post#: 29843--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: mickR Date: July 14, 2024, 3:02 pm
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it sounds to me its just removing foam and installing
insulation in a pre existing roof with no alterations I can't
see under what regulation BC would need to be involved.
if an independent report is req you could use a private BC or
Surveyor.
#Post#: 29851--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: andy_foster Date: July 14, 2024, 3:20 pm
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General rule (of thumb) is that building regs aren't
retrospective, unless relevant work is being done to that part
of the property.
Other than the general send three and fourpence and the
consequent dentistry, it always concerns me when a poster states
something as fact and then proceeds to cite an actual fact which
merely indicates that their statement could potentially be true.
If the lender is happy with the loft as it now is, then
seemingly no problem. If the lender has made an offer and
therefore must be happy with it, you are Mr Hankey and I claim
my £5.
There are technical solutions if the building regs need to be
complied with, but not cheap. 100mm of Kingspan would have a
roughly comparable U-value to 270mm of loftroll.
I have heard suggestions that a material change to the fabric of
a property would void an existing EPC - although I suspect that
that is more a case of good practice than an actual regulation.
#Post#: 29864--------------------------------------------------
Re: House purchase - solicitor won’t budge on a buildings regs i
ssue
By: mickR Date: July 14, 2024, 6:44 pm
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[quote author=H C Andersen link=topic=2509.msg29779#msg29779
date=1720886162]
In which case, why would the solicitor take a view contrary to
the council's? It doesn't make sense IMO.
[/quote]
it's actually quite common.
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